Championship 16/17

[FIF]

Keith Hackett in the Telegraph:

Keith Stroud's mistake at Newcastle was unforgivable and suddenly we've become the laughing stock of referees around the world.

I've been inundated with emails from referees from all over the world and our reputation is tarnished by it.

By awarding an indirect free-kick to Burton Albion, for apparent encroachment when Matt Ritchie took the penalty for Newcastle, Stroud has committed a huge basic error.

He has failed to apply the law and within the remit of the Football Association there could be a suspension served of up to 35 days.

The FA has invoked it in the past with referees that have committed major mistakes and it will be interesting to see if they decide on similar punishment.

This could have had massive consequences, for both Newcastle and Burton, and you simply cannot make such a basic mistake. Fortunately, the referee got away with it because Newcastle won the game but everybody is talking about the incident.

Keith Stroud is one of the most experienced referees in the league who has officiated as a select group referee in his career.

It's been compounded by having an experienced fourth official plus his two assistants on the line who have the ability to question why he's awarded an indirect free-kick, but I'm amazed they didn't intervene.

This is another classic case of a referee not being assisted - they changed the title from linesman to assistant referees with the intention of them assisting but they haven't done it.

Rafael Benitez is a very experienced manager who is a sound individual and an excellent knowledge of the laws. He's picked it up very quicky and alerted the officials to what happened on Wednesday night but nobody listened.


The PGMOL cannot just laugh it off with a statement, which was released at the speed of light shortly after the final whistle.

I've always thought that referees should be made to pass an annual test and this has just enforced it.

In fairness to the PGMOL, they and the FA notify match officials pretty quickly if there are changes to the law but a test should still be applied.

The rest of Europe do the tests but there's an arrogance about it here, where we don't think it needs to be done.

Keith Hackett is a former referee and resident expert for You-Are-The-Ref.com

I thoroughly agree with most of that especially the comment about the assistant refs.

 

[FIF]

Actually, using AI to make refereeing decisions is extremely difficult. It'll be a long time before that happens, if at all.

It won't happen because "fans" want to keep crappy refs. It really isn't so difficult to imagine if someone wanted to do it though. We put a man on the moon nearly 50 years ago, we've had computers that can beat players at Chess and Go. Football is simple in comparison.

 

[Jeff]

It won't happen because "fans" want to keep crappy refs. It really isn't so difficult to imagine if someone wanted to do it though. We put a man on the moon nearly 50 years ago, we've had computers that can beat players at Chess and Go. Football is simple in comparison.

Football is much more complicated than Chess, for example. In chess there are a limited number of possible moves, so a computer can calculate all possibilities, and decide which is the best.
Football is far more fluid, there's no limit to what can happen on the pitch, an infringement could happen anywhere on the pitch at any time.

The easiest thing for a computer to referee is, has the ball crossed the line. In relative terms that's dead simple. Has it crossed the line, yes or no. But developing a system that does that reliably cost a fortune, needs loads of expensive equipment, and is only used at the top level as a result. Maybe the next step would be for a computer to decide on offsides, but that is far more complicated, and still relatively easy compared to things like fouls, handballs etc, where the referee has to use their opinion to decide what's deliberate etc.

 

[FIF]

Football is much more complicated than Chess, for example. In chess there are a limited number of possible moves, so a computer can calculate all possibilities, and decide which is the best.
Football is far more fluid, there's no limit to what can happen on the pitch, an infringement could happen anywhere on the pitch at any time.

The easiest thing for a computer to referee is, has the ball crossed the line. In relative terms that's dead simple. Has it crossed the line, yes or no. But developing a system that does that reliably cost a fortune, needs loads of expensive equipment, and is only used at the top level as a result. Maybe the next step would be for a computer to decide on offsides, but that is far more complicated, and still relatively easy compared to things like fouls, handballs etc, where the referee has to use their opinion to decide what's deliberate etc.

It's easy for a computer to judge offside. It's easy for a computer to judge contact (intent isn't important in the rules is it?) It's easy for a computer to ignore players rolling around like crippled babies. A ref has one pair of eyes and one angle, a computer can have 1000 lines of sight and unlimited sensors. A few years ago we wouldn't have foreseen the stats churned out now like distance ran by every player, heat graphs for each players position, number of sprints speed etc... that's all done by computers without the FA even adapting the pitch, ball and kits of players. If they had the will there'd be a way. But just like goal-line technology for so many years there is no will.

 

[Jeff]

that's all done by computers

No it's not. It's done by humans, using computers.

 

[FIF]

No it's not. It's done by humans, using computers.

Yeah but not by specialist referees (some of whom may know the rules). Anyway enough of this crap, back to work.

 

[pork pie fox]

It's a basic decision. There are quite a few complex laws, that might be easier to get wrong. This isn't one of them.

I'm a qualified referee and would always try to sympathise with the officials, as it's a difficult job. This, however, wasn't difficult and I can't fathom how he got this wrong.

 

[homer]

Quite an incredible feck up - this isn't poor judgement (was it/wasn't it a foul or a dive) this is to seemingly forget one of the most simple of rules

Absolutely bizarre

 

[pork pie fox]

It's easy for a computer to judge offside.

I would argue that it is easy for a computer to judge if a player is in an offside position, but not easy for a computer to judge if he is offside.

 

[FIF]

It's a basic decision. There are quite a few complex laws, that might be easier to get wrong. This isn't one of them.

I'm a qualified referee and would always try to sympathise with the officials, as it's a difficult job. This, however, wasn't difficult and I can't fathom how he got this wrong.

They

 

[City Fan]

I would think the ref is the one who got the decision wrong, and the others didn't know why he'd given the free kick, or were too scared / unsure of themselves to tell him they disagreed with him - he's the boss.

If I disagree with my boss I tell him so. If the "assistants" are that bollockless then they shouldn't be on the field.

 

[Mawsley]

If the "assistants" are that bollockless then they shouldn't be on the field.

Andy Gray, ladies and gentlemen.

 

[FOX Franks]

Andy Gray, ladies and gentlemen.

Wow, that was 6 years ago?

 

[Jeff]

Forest have lost 1-0 at home to Blackburn. They're two points above the relegation zone with four games left.

Derby's outside chance of reaching the play-offs looks to be over, after they lost 4-0 at Brentford.

 

[Lako42]

Embarrassment of the East Midlands.

Get them back where they belong (according to recent history)

 

[Blaarev]

Forest have lost 1-0 at home to Blackburn. They're two points above the relegation zone with four games left.

Derby's outside chance of reaching the play-offs looks to be over, after they lost 4-0 at Brentford.

Lost 0-1 in Cardiff today, now only 1 point above the relegation zone.

 

[Motown Fox]

Brighton there, well almost. But looking for Derby to do them a favour as they'll have to wait a bit longer if Huddersfield beat the Rams.

 

[pork pie fox]

Lost 0-1 in Cardiff today, now only 1 point above the relegation zone.

Zola seems to be doing his best to save them, though.

 

[Motown Fox]

Zola seems to be doing his best to save them, though.

After the Burton defeat today Zola did not appear for the aftermatch Interview, and what with the Birmingham players arguing with themselves at the previous game, looks like they are in freefall.

 

[Robin127]

Getting rid of Rowett was a really good move. I like Zola but he's not a good manager/coach.