Post Match Liverpool 2 Leicester 1

[popillius]

My point is that we're shipping points and results (including the quarter final v Man City) because our back up players are not good enough. You cannot play the same eleven players all the time. We need to get them out and strengthen the first team which will strengthen the back up players and then promote some of the U23s that are doing so well - Choudhury, Thomas, etc.

This is absolutely spot on. Rotation is necessary but we're swapping decent players for totally ineffective dross. The gulf in talent between Ndidi and King, Vardy and Slimani/Ulloa, Dragovic and Maguire, Morgan and Benalouane etc... is apocalyptically wide and it shouldn't be. We need a major overhaul of what is a hugely divided squad. Slimani summed up everything that is wrong with our back up players today.

 

[Redditch Fox]

This is absolutely spot on. Rotation is necessary but we're swapping decent players for totally ineffective dross. The gulf in talent between Ndidi and King, Vardy and Slimani/Ulloa, Dragovic and Maguire, Morgan and Benalouane etc... is apocalyptically wide and it shouldn't be. We need a major overhaul of what is a hugely divided squad. Slimani summed up everything that is wrong with our back up players today.

I assume that Puel must recognise that he is unable to rotate because the back up players are so pitifully weak. Of course it is difficult to recruit decent players without being able to offer them regular first team football and also difficult to get rid of the dross without having replacements. But surely we can't continue to carry players who are incapable of having even the occasional decent game irrespective of the club having wasted millions on awful recruitment.

 

[alex]

Cannot believe the Iborra bashing on here, his pass to Mahrez for the goal was sublime. He’s a top player, in Can today alas he came up against another one and combined with the lack of ball control from Mahrez a lot of his passes didn’t look as good as they should.

 

[Lako42]

Cannot believe the Iborra bashing on here, his pass to Mahrez for the goal was sublime. He’s a top player, in Can today alas he came up against another one and combined with the lack of ball control from Mahrez a lot of his passes didn’t look as good as they should.

Even a good passed of the ball goes to shit when nobody around them is even the slightest bit bothered about moving and finding space.

The lack of genuine movement is a real concern when we seem to want to play a passing game.

 

[Ike O'Noclassed]

This is absolutely spot on. Rotation is necessary but we're swapping decent players for totally ineffective dross. The gulf in talent between Ndidi and King, Vardy and Slimani/Ulloa, Dragovic and Maguire, Morgan and Benalouane etc... is apocalyptically wide and it shouldn't be. We need a major overhaul of what is a hugely divided squad. Slimani summed up everything that is wrong with our back up players today.

Except the "gulf in talent" only seems to manifest itself when they are part of our alleged squad rotation system. The "ineffective dross" we've got rid of, include Hernandez, Zieler (recently nominated in TB's worst-ever thread) and temporarily Mendy, are all cheerfully regulars in La Liga, the Bundesliga and Ligue 1 respectively.

 

[popillius]

Except the "gulf in talent" only seems to manifest itself when they are part of our alleged squad rotation system. The "ineffective dross" we've got rid of, include Hernandez, Zieler (recently nominated in TB's worst-ever thread) and temporarily Mendy, are all cheerfully regulars in La Liga, the Bundesliga and Ligue 1 respectively.

So that's the paradigm? They are all playing in other leagues so they must be good enough for us? Max Gradel did well abroad - would you like him back too?

 

[Miles Away]

Except the "gulf in talent" only seems to manifest itself when they are part of our alleged squad rotation system. The "ineffective dross" we've got rid of, include Hernandez, Zieler (recently nominated in TB's worst-ever thread) and temporarily Mendy, are all cheerfully regulars in La Liga, the Bundesliga and Ligue 1 respectively.

Indeed. Very difficult to prove yourself when only given minor roles. Slimani, when played 90 minutes, has often scored. Mendy joined with a big reputation and is doing well in France from what I can gather.

Should we move these players on? Probably. Will they prove themselves decent players? I think so.

I genuinely believe it’s less to do with the quality of player and that we haven’t had a good policy.

 

[popillius]

Indeed. Very difficult to prove yourself when only given minor roles. Slimani, when played 90 minutes, has often scored. Mendy joined with a big reputation and is doing well in France from what I can gather.

Should we move these players on? Probably. Will they prove themselves decent players? I think so.

I genuinely believe it’s less to do with the quality of player and that we haven’t had a good policy.

So what is the answer? Do you think Slimani, King, Musa, Ulloa, Dragovic, Hamer, Mendy and Iheanacho should be given extended runs in the team, even though for the most part they have been awful when given game time? Slimani doesn't score every time he steps foot on the pitch like many would have us believe. Okay, he has contributed some goals but for the most part he's shown himself to be awful with the ball at his feet and a liability when it comes to giving away free kick after free kick. Take his appearance yesterday as an example; he came on, commited a foul almost instantly and then did nothing at all for the remainder of his time on the pitch. That's just one isolated exemplar. Musa has been embarrassingly bad as have Ulloa and Mendy. I couldn't care less whether some of them are playing okay some place else, they didn't when they were given the chance in the Premier League. Like I said, many players will be successful elsewhere, it doesnt mean they aren't useless in a different set of circumstances, however this may transpire.

Professionalism is being able to play well when called upon. If they had done that, they may be starting more games but whenever they have been asked to step up to the mark either as substitutes or as replacements, they have, on the whole, contributed little and disappointed. The fact that three successive managers have also chosen not to use several of these players in their starting eleven also suggests that they may not be impressing whilst training either.

 

[Feriol]

We do seem to have been very poor at keeping our fringe players match ready in recent years. Whether it's fitness, confidence or general unhappiness I don't know, but it happens with pretty much every player recently.

We have signed players who were decent before they came and have been decent after they left but they couldn't kick a ball straight when they were here. Too many times for it to just be the players IMO.

Puel has expressed a desire to develop our younger players so hopefully those players who are not in the team will get the attention they need.

 

[Miles Away]

I haven’t seen enough of Dragovic to come to any conclusion at all. Same for Mendy and Nacho.

Musa has definitely struggled, the move hasn’t worked yet. I suspect he was signed as insurance for Vardy and then he never left.

Slimani I’ve seen enough to know he can be very effective in a system suited to him. We don’t play it.

Ulloa was a useful contributor whose time has run out.

Hamer is, admittedly, crap.

I remember thinking Vardy, particularly after a game he came on against Boro, was absolutely dreadful and that he needed moving on. I was wrong. Some players take time.

As for the “3 managers” argument. Claudio signed most, Puel hasn’t even had 3 months in the job and Shakespeare doesn’t count as a “manager”.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[camberwell fox]

I haven’t seen enough of Dragovic to come to any conclusion at all. Same for Mendy and Nacho.

Musa has definitely struggled, the move hasn’t worked yet. I suspect he was signed as insurance for Vardy and then he never left.

Slimani I’ve seen enough to know he can be very effective in a system suited to him. We don’t play it.

Ulloa was a useful contributor whose time has run out.

Hamer is, admittedly, crap.

I remember thinking Vardy, particularly after a game he came on against Boro, was absolutely dreadful and that he needed moving on. I was wrong. Some players take time.

As for the “3 managers” argument. Claudio signed most, Puel hasn’t even had 3 months in the job and Shakespeare doesn’t count as a “manager”.

Just my opinion of course.

I agree with pretty much all of that MA.

I am still surprised though that some posters can’t see the value Vardy brings.

He scores pretty much 1 in 2 games yet has been critisicisesd for not doing enough or contributing enough.

I really struggle sometimes to understand what some people’s expectations are.

 

[popillius]

I agree with pretty much all of that MA.

I am still surprised though that some posters can’t see the value Vardy brings.

He scores pretty much 1 in 2 games yet has been critisicisesd for not doing enough or contributing enough.

I really struggle sometimes to understand what some people’s expectations are.

Very few people criticise Vardy, it's the same 1 or 2 with spurious reasoning. The rest of us understand what a fantastic player we have in him.

I haven’t seen enough of Dragovic to come to any conclusion at all. Same for Mendy and Nacho.

Musa has definitely struggled, the move hasn’t worked yet. I suspect he was signed as insurance for Vardy and then he never left.

Slimani I’ve seen enough to know he can be very effective in a system suited to him. We don’t play it.

Ulloa was a useful contributor whose time has run out.

Hamer is, admittedly, crap.

I remember thinking Vardy, particularly after a game he came on against Boro, was absolutely dreadful and that he needed moving on. I was wrong. Some players take time.

As for the “3 managers” argument. Claudio signed most, Puel hasn’t even had 3 months in the job and Shakespeare doesn’t count as a “manager”.

Just my opinion of course.

What system would work for Slimani? I'm not being deliberately obtuse, just playing Devil's advocate. Are we suggesting he is completely unable to adapt? If so, what's the point of him? What system will stop him charging around and barging into people giving away free kicks? What system will make him look as if he can control a football with his feet? I think you're right in that there is one somewhere but it isn't ours and never was so he's a lame duck as far as we are concerned.

You haven't seen much of Mendy, Dragivic or Iheanacho because they have been so dreadful when given their chances that they cannot possibly merit a starting position. Only they can change this by stepping up to the mark when called upon. Okay, I'm being a little unfair or over simplistic here perhaps but you can't just give players game time if they are showing themselves to be either past caring, inept or simply just out of their depth nearly every time they step foot on the pitch.

Ranieri did buy most of them you are correct, he still didn't play them! This in itself speaks volumes. Puel has had 3 months which is more than long enough to know who he can and can't trust to do a job; Slimani, Jakupovic and Musa barely get bench time and and Iheanacho isn't any closer to starting. As for Shakespeare, whatever you think of the guy he still saw those players far more than we did, knew what they could and couldn't do and with his job in the line, still chose to keep them on the bench or out of the squad because they weren't good enough.

It's okay to say that some players just aren't good enough and it's okay to want to move them on. What's not okay is spunking millions of pounds on them and then shipping them out on loan or leaving them out of squads altogether. Let's just cut our losses on Slimani, Musa, Mendy and a few of the others and invest in quality rather than quantity.

 

[camberwell fox]

Let's just cut our losses on Slimani, Musa, Mendy and a few of the others and invest in quality rather than quantity.

To be fair though, the three players quoted above do fit into the quality bracket in terms of the fees paid I believe?

 

[H T B]

To be fair though, the three players quoted above do fit into the quality bracket in terms of the fees paid I believe?

Therein lies the problem
Buying any player, especially ones from a different league, is always going to be a gamble.
LCFC are new to the game of spending mega bucks on a player.
When gems costing little or no money have been unearthed, is it so wrong to expect, that when zillions are spent on a player, that he should stand head and shoulders (in a good way) above what we already have?