Fan's discussion with Tim Davies

[Steven]

Spoke to Tim Davies yesterday re finances and the proposed ground share. In summary,

1. We owe Teachers £18m at 7% per annum which when cleared would give us back freehold of the stadium i.e. like a fixed rate mortgage.
2. The basic repayments are set at between £2.5m - £2.9m if we are in the Prem and £1m in the Championship paid in one go in the Summer before a ball is kicked.
3. 7% of £18m is £1.26m meaning that while we are not in the Prem we are paying £1m to Teachers per year, but the debt is increasing by £260k per year i.e. we are not even meeting the interest costs.
4. It would have taken 9 consecutive seasons in the Prem starting last year to clear the debt, or 19 seasons of yo-yo-ing. It would not be cleared if we stayed out of the Prem and repaid at the current rate.
5. The £2.5m - £2.9m paid last year equated to 1 or 2 decent signings which Tim thought might have kept us up.
6. Teachers have to sell the ground back to us early as part of the agreement and we are trying to negotiate a discount from the £18m owed to reflect early repayment of the loan, etc.
7. If we had achieved top 10 Prem status the full debt of £23m would be due to Teachers (unclear on the details of this).
8. The pitch dimensions can incorporate rugby.
9. The pitch will use the same technology as that at Wigan, except TD thought ours would be better as Wigan's owner insists on rolling it which is not recommended (this might mean something to someone who knows about these things).
10. There is no agreement for Tigers reserves to play at the Walkers. There is a possibility both reserve teams would play at Welford Road in the short term.
11. Tigers will pay half of the negotiated cost of the freehold and further compensatory amounts to reflect the fact they didn't have to bear any of the construction costs and the fact that our conferencing income is currently greater than theirs.
12. As with everyone else who has spoken to him I can confirm he is a very nice bloke and was in his office until 10.00 p.m. last night.
13. Why couldn't our local media have got any of these facts? (unless they did because I have long since given up reading/listening to them).
14. I hope I haven't misinterpreted anything he said!

 

[lazzer]

good post

 

[Tony Elsby]

good post

Outstanding post. Lots of specific information to digest and much of it just as I suspected regarding the ground financing.
City would be in a financial and competive cul-de-sac for years if not for the rest of their existence.
You can certainly understand why they embraced the groundshare concept and as I've said on other occasions, while having some regrets on historical grounds, I believe it is the best (perhaps only) sensible way forward and, approached responsibly, will likely give the club a bigger profile and more chance of top level success.
As for the Press/media, the first requirement is to ask the proper questions and you've certainly set them an example.
What a pity they weren't properly critical of the football and everything else that was going wrong on the playing side pre-Levein cos maybe we wouldn't now be playing such a lengthy game of catch-up with the pacesetters.
Journalists should be skilled enough to be analytical and investigative, not just reporters of the ball-by-ball happenings. And that means reserves, Academy, everything which affects the success or otherwise of the club.
Once more - a cracking post.




.

 

[Mike - True Blue Tinter]

I can confirm that Tim said nearly all those things at last Thursday's meeting at the stadium. In particular he was keen to highlight:
1) That the Tigers payment would reflect money we have already paid on the stadium and for the 'goodwill' of our conference business which would be merged and shared with theirs.
2) Stadium running costs will be halved, including £600 000 rates bill!
3) If we stay in the Championship it will take 25 years and £25 million to pay off the £18 million owed. In the Prem it would still take 10 years.
4) They might take £12 million now as full settlement, which then means more money available for better players, which means more likely to reach and stay in the Prem, which means bigger gates, which means more money for better players ...

Forget green seats, surely you can see this gives us a better team?

 

[Scotfox]

Well done, that information confirms my belief that groundshare is the way forward. I can also understand why 'Teachers are proving difficult over the sale, at the moment they have a nice little earner, 12 mill against 25 or possibly more is a good reason not to honour an agreement, some tough negotiations are undoutbly ahead.

 

[Foxes_Trust]

good post

As for the Press/media, the first requirement is to ask the proper questions and you've certainly set them an example.
What a pity they weren't properly critical of the football and everything else that was going wrong on the playing side pre-Levein cos maybe we wouldn't now be playing such a lengthy game of catch-up with the pacesetters.
Journalists should be skilled enough to be analytical and investigative, not just reporters of the ball-by-ball happenings. And that means reserves, Academy, everything which affects the success or otherwise of the club.
Once more - a cracking post.
.

'Media partners' and analytical and investigative journalism don't mix!

 

[marky boy]

9. The pitch will use the same technology as that at Wigan, except TD thought ours would be better as Wigan's owner insists on rolling it which is not recommended (this might mean something to someone who knows about these things).

I mentioned last week somewhere about how wigan's pitch due to the groundshare looks poor from what I saw from highlights of our game there.

Any one actually at the game to help clarify??

Cheers

 

[beaumontfox]

yep... the pitch was shocking!

 

[homer]

Not that I believe that Timbo is making this up as he goes along, or hiding the truth in any way - but this in the Mercury from David Clayton, Tigers managing director:

"Tigers development games now attract crowds of around 10,000. Where will these matches be played next season?

Our home development games will be played at the Walkers Stadium."

 

[homer]

One more point.

From the fans forum minutes :

"TD did not/could not expand further on Financial issues as this was still to be contracted, other than to say that the proposed Ground Ownership would save the club at least £1 million per season, & probably more. He again affirmed that all funds saved would be directed to the playing side of the club."

Just seems strange that these facts could not have been made available at the meeting, or through the media, rather than in a one off telephone conversation with a fan

 

[Steven]

One more point.

From the fans forum minutes :

"TD did not/could not expand further on Financial issues as this was still to be contracted, other than to say that the proposed Ground Ownership would save the club at least £1 million per season, & probably more. He again affirmed that all funds saved would be directed to the playing side of the club."

Just seems strange that these facts could not have been made available at the meeting, or through the media, rather than in a one off telephone conversation with a fan

Apparently these figures were at that meeting last week. Just the first time I have seen these figures on a City forum.

 

[homer]

Serves me right for being an ignorant lazy bonehead who couldn't be bothered to get off his fat backside and tell his employer that he couldn't work that afternoon/evening because he had to go to a fans meeting

Shows how good the minutes were, though...

 

[Tony Elsby]

good post

As for the Press/media, the first requirement is to ask the proper questions and you've certainly set them an example.
What a pity they weren't properly critical of the football and everything else that was going wrong on the playing side pre-Levein cos maybe we wouldn't now be playing such a lengthy game of catch-up with the pacesetters.
Journalists should be skilled enough to be analytical and investigative, not just reporters of the ball-by-ball happenings. And that means reserves, Academy, everything which affects the success or otherwise of the club.
Once more - a cracking post.


.

'Media partners' and analytical and investigative journalism don't mix!

Is that why there's going to be so many changes at the BBC before the Election?

 

[alex]

I like my eggs poached.

 

[Joe_Fox]

I like my eggs poached.

Poached

 

[webmaster]

9. The pitch will use the same technology as that at Wigan, except TD thought ours would be better as Wigan's owner insists on rolling it which is not recommended (this might mean something to someone who knows about these things).

I mentioned last week somewhere about how wigan's pitch due to the groundshare looks poor from what I saw from highlights of our game there.

Any one actually at the game to help clarify??

Cheers

Tim Davies has said on a number of occasions that the reason the Wigan pitch is so bad is because they use a heavy roller on it, which you're not supposed to do with that sort of pitch, and that's what's ruined it. Whether that's true or not I don't know, but that's apparently what the 'experts' have told LCFC..

I've thought about going to Wycombe the day after the f*rest game, to see what their pitch is like - but I'll probably end up xmas shopping instead.

 

[Joe_Fox]

What's on your Santa's list Webbo? A new server?

Seriously, this pitch issue is going to be key in all decisions regarding the ground share. Union has more detrimental effects on a pitch than League so using Wigan's pitch as an example is not really fair.

Time will tell, I'm still well against the proposals.