Was/Were Has/Here

[Joe_Fox]

Is it just me or is the use of was/has to describe a collective (e.g. a team, a band) becoming more and more commonplace in the English (British English) speaking media. (On an aside, British English to me sounds stupid - just call it English and all other derivations what they are e.g. American English.)

It appears that in the USA (especially) and here in Australia, when describing something about a collective, was/has is used instead of were/have, which I think is still the more commonly used option in England.

To me, saying Leicester City has beaten Spurs just sounds plain weird! Leicester City have beaten Spurs, because Leicester City is a team which is a collective noun. Apparently it's all to do with singular and plural verbs but there is definitely grey areas in that and I just wonder if it's a region/country thing.

Another example: I heard someone ask another person about a band's performance at a gig. Person A asked "How was Arctic Monkeys?". Naturally, person B told them to a) mind their own ****ing business and b) stop talking like a Yank. Surely it's "How were Arctic Monkeys?"?

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this. Am I going mad? Does my memory serve me correctly when I recall hearing Des Lynam saying "Arsenal have won the Premier League", or John Peel explaining to his audience that The Fall were formed in 1976 in Prestwich, Greater Manchester?

 

[Joe_Fox]

Dearest moderator. Please could you edit the title of this post to "Was/Has Were/Have"? Thanking you in advance.

 

[homer]

I believe the correct terms are actually ze / zie / zir

 

[pork pie fox]

Joe_ woz ere

 

[Blaarev]

Joe_ woz ere

Were where he?

 

[Blue Maniac]

I noticed it in Australia, they describe sports teams in the singular, as do yanks (eg Leicester City signs Australian defender, England has beaten Australia in the Rugby World Cup final etc). However, your Arctic Monkeys example is different. It’s a version of “how was the Arctic Monkeys gig?” and generally accepted as correct. Unless they intended to enquire about the welfare of individual members of the group, in which case “were” is right.

 

[homer]

First World problems….

 

[tedfoxxx]

Joe_Fox

Grammar Lampard.

 

[Payne74]

First World problems….

Yes it's the number one topic in Ukraine, Russia, Syria and Turkey

 

[jb5000]

I noticed it in Australia, they describe sports teams in the singular, as do yanks (eg Leicester City signs Australian defender, England has beaten Australia in the Rugby World Cup final etc). However, your Arctic Monkeys example is different. It’s a version of “how was the Arctic Monkeys gig?” and generally accepted as correct. Unless they intended to enquire about the welfare of individual members of the group, in which case “were” is right.

'Was' in your example refers to the gig, which is a singular noun. If you'd followed them around their tour I might ask 'how were the Artic Monkeys gigs?'

I've noticed that the use of the singular for groups, whether they are football teams or guitar bands, is becoming more commonplace too. I understand that this has actually been considered the correct usuage in both US and Commonwealth English (that's the term you're looking for Joe) all along, but my own preference for the plural is based on the idea that both the Artic Monkeys and Leicester City's representitive teams are more than the sum of the people on the stage or pitch. I don't know if this is happening more in one part of the anglosphere or another, although it does occur to me that the rabid hatred of anything that could even vaguely be described as socialist would have a certain americans jumping on the idea that either are anything but a collection of rugged individualists.

Fashions change in language though - for example, 30 years ago nobody would have raised an eyebrow about someone referring to a game of soccer at Filbert Street. For some reason this old english word is now considered a vulgar americanism.

 

[Blue Maniac]

'Was' in your example refers to the gig, which is a singular noun. If you'd followed them around their tour I might ask 'how were the Artic Monkeys gigs?'

I’m more likely to ask “how was the tour?” or “why did you do that?”

Commonwealth English (that's the term you're looking for Joe)

You can just say English

the rabid hatred of anything that could even vaguely be described as socialist would have a certain americans jumping on the idea that either are anything but a collection of rugged individualists.

Decades of indoctrination and flag worship seems to rob entire populations of their capacity for individual thought. Bit ironic

Fashions change in language though - for example, 30 years ago nobody would have raised an eyebrow about someone referring to a game of soccer at Filbert Street. For some reason this old english word is now considered a vulgar americanism.

The origins of this word seem a bit odd but are unquestionably English. I just don’t like it

 

[jb5000]

I’m more likely to ask “how was the tour?” or “why did you do that?”

I wouldn't wish to comment on any of our life choices. Some of us spend a fortune and a lifetime following this football club after all.

You can just say English

A person can. A person can also sneer at Americans for not realising that there is an entire world beyond their shores. But it's difficult to do both.

Decades of indoctrination and flag worship seems to rob entire populations of their capacity for individual thought. Bit ironic

It is, don't ya think?

The origins of this word seem a bit odd but are unquestionably English. I just don’t like it

We should encourage fans of the other football to go back to the old term 'gridiron', that way we can have our word back

 

[Blue Maniac]

A person can. A person can also sneer at Americans for not realising that there is an entire world beyond their shores. But it's difficult to do both.

I promise you it isn’t that difficult. Making fun of Americans who are voluntarily ignorant of everything not directly related to themselves personally is actually embarrassingly easy because they seem, from the outside, to be the overwhelming majority.

We should encourage fans of the other football to go back to the old term 'gridiron', that way we can have our word back

I don’t like that one either. Familiarity with all these terms and understanding of context is probably the best strategy.

 

[pork pie fox]

Jeez and there was me thinking that Ted and I were boring the other day.

 

[Blue Maniac]

Jeez and there was me thinking that Ted and I were boring the other day.

You were correct

 

[tedfoxxx]

Jeez and there was me thinking that Ted and I were boring the other day.

That reminds me, subscribe and leave a review for mine and PPF’s new podcast, Congleton Confidential.

 

[pork pie fox]

That reminds me, subscribe and leave a review for mine and PPF’s new podcast, Congleton Confidential.

"Made in Melton"

 

[tedfoxxx]

"Made in Melton"

“Easy on the Eye”

 

[pork pie fox]

“Easy”

If you say so

 

[Joe_Fox]

"Made in Melton"

“Easy on the Eye”

Shouldn't this be "Easy on the pork pie"?