Germanwings crash

[RHYDAL]

Reports coming out that the co-pilot suffered from depression.

If it turns out to be true, how on earth was he let anywhere near the cockpit of a plane with the lives of 150+ people in his hands?

How long before we wake up and stop smiling at depression like a small puppy, and treat it like the Rottweiler it is?

 

[Cate Fox]

Reports coming out that the co-pilot suffered from depression.

If it turns out to be true, how on earth was he let anywhere near the cockpit of a plane with the lives of 150+ people in his hands?

How long before we wake up and stop smiling at depression like a small puppy, and treat it like the Rottweiler it is?

So how can you tell from looking at someone that they are suffering from depression?

 

[RHYDAL]

So how can you tell from looking at someone that they are suffering from depression?

From the BBC website.....

The man suspected of deliberately crashing a Germanwings A320 plane in the French Alps required treatment for depression, German media say.
Regular assessments were recommended in Andreas Lubitz's official notes after a serious episode some years ago

 

[Cate Fox]

From the BBC website.....

The man suspected of deliberately crashing a Germanwings A320 plane in the French Alps required treatment for depression, German media say.
Regular assessments were recommended in Andreas Lubitz's official notes after a serious episode some years ago

Sorry Rhydal, just heard this on the radio. Wasnt aware prior...

 

[Lako42]

From the BBC website.....

The man suspected of deliberately crashing a Germanwings A320 plane in the French Alps required treatment for depression, German media say.
Regular assessments were recommended in Andreas Lubitz's official notes after a serious episode some years ago

And presumably these assessments were made?

Recent incidents in his life may have been a factor in what he did, maybe he had been stable for a decent period of time.

Not sure what the point is, should he have been sacked due to his previous condition?

 

[RHYDAL]

And presumably these assessments were made?

Recent incidents in his life may have been a factor in what he did, maybe he had been stable for a decent period of time.

Not sure what the point is, should he have been sacked due to his previous condition?

I think the point is clear...you don't cure depression, you try to manage it.


If you have a medical condition which would make you a liability on the road you have your license revoked by your doctor.

The standards for pilots should be exponentially higher. If there's even a slight chance that an ongoing condition could make you liable to take a joyride with hundreds of passengers on board, and potentially crash into a populated area killing thousands more then you are excluded ad infinitum.

If he'd turned right and crashed into the middle of Nice this thing would have been a hell of a lot worse.

There's a whole industry at airports to prevent a 70 year old like my mum getting on a flight to Fuertaventura with a nail file in her hand luggage, yet a suicidal murderer can take the wheel.

 

[Lako42]

I think the point is clear...you don't cure depression, you try to manage it.


If you have a medical condition which would make you a liability on the road you have your license revoked by your doctor.

The standards for pilots should be exponentially higher. If there's even a slight chance that an ongoing condition could make you liable to take a joyride with hundreds of passengers on board, and potentially crash into a populated area killing thousands more then you are excluded ad infinitum.

If he'd turned right and crashed into the middle of Nice this thing would have been a hell of a lot worse.

There's a whole industry at airports to prevent a 70 year old like my mum getting on a flight to Fuertaventura with a nail file in her hand luggage, yet a suicidal murderer can take the wheel.

I understand what you are saying, but we are all susceptible to depression, it's not an exclusive condition that sticks out like a sore thumb.

There are plenty of people who have suffered with depression and carry out a vast amount of high profile roles, including driving buses or lorries, all with the capability to kill plenty of innocent people.

What we are suggesting above is quite dangerous in that it tars everyone who has suffered depression with the same brush, and ultimately separates them further from society, not the ideal way to deal with the issue Imo.

It's a tricky situation though and I understand the concerns raised, but what are the chances of a plane going down from this and a plane going down from mechanical/weather faults?

I think the real issue is the reappearance of his depression was able to be covered up by binning sick notes etc, there should be more links with employers in these situations.

 

[RHYDAL]

I think the real issue is the reappearance of his depression was able to be covered up by binning sick notes etc, there should be more links with employers in these situations.

Agree there should be a mechanism for the doctor to call whatever aviation authority applies and get his pass revoked, immediately.

We may all be susceptible to depression. I suppose I think he's the wrong side of the responsibility line to bear the depression and the high pressure involved in his role.

I'd say the same of nuclear power plant workers. Which leads me on to the fact he could have crashed into one of them too(the plant not the worker).

Very few people have access to cause this level of devastation.

 

[spionfox]

I think the real issue is the reappearance of his depression was able to be covered up by binning sick notes etc, there should be more links with employers in these situations.

I thought this whilst watching the news emerge on CNN earlier.

I also considered human rights issues, a right to privacy etc and then thought sod it, safety of hundreds of people is far more important than the civil liberties of an individual.

 

[NN Fox]

There is no evidence that he suffered from depression, merely the press speculation designed to feed the ever hungry monster of 24 hour news. In the meantime I suggest you go away and do some research into depression before you post inaccurate, ignorant comments (or maybe you should just trust your prejudices, ring your bell and shout "unclean" at likely suspects). You can reply if you wish but I shall be ignoring this thread from now on.

 

[spionfox]

There is no evidence that he suffered from depression, merely the press speculation designed to feed the ever hungry monster of 24 hour news. In the meantime I suggest you go away and do some research into depression before you post inaccurate, ignorant comments (or maybe you should just trust your prejudices, ring your bell and shout "unclean" at likely suspects). You can reply if you wish but I shall be ignoring this thread from now on.

To which of the four people who have posted to this thread are you addressing your comments?

 

[Brown Nose]

I agree that there is nothing I've seen outside of speculation to say that this was caused by depression. Any number of mental health conditions, not to mention a few physical ones, could be the root cause for this awful tragedy. Frankly, I'd be surprised if depression alone was deemed to be the reason. And if it is, it is likely to be misdiagnosis.

The reason this happened was because of the over-reaction following 9/11. Plane cockpits became so secure that a pilot cannot get back into one if someone in the cockpit doesn't want them to. That's potty. I'm sure the outcome of this will be that there must always be two people in the cockpit at any one time and that seems to me to be the obvious and sensible conclusion from this.

On the more general point that I think caused the ire of NN Fox, it is obscene to think that just because someone has a mental health condition, they are not capable of undertaking jobs with serious levels of physical responsibility. Thinking of this argument in reverse, to me it is as stupid as saying that Stephen Hawking shouldn't be allowed to be a scientist.

 

[OldGit]

I agree that there is nothing I've seen outside of speculation to say that this was caused by depression. Any number of mental health conditions, not to mention a few physical ones, could be the root cause for this awful tragedy. Frankly, I'd be surprised if depression alone was deemed to be the reason. And if it is, it is likely to be misdiagnosis.

The reason this happened was because of the over-reaction following 9/11. Plane cockpits became so secure that a pilot cannot get back into one if someone in the cockpit doesn't want them to. That's potty. I'm sure the outcome of this will be that there must always be two people in the cockpit at any one time and that seems to me to be the obvious and sensible conclusion from this.

On the more general point that I think caused the ire of NN Fox, it is obscene to think that just because someone has a mental health condition, they are not capable of undertaking jobs with serious levels of physical responsibility. Thinking of this argument in reverse, to me it is as stupid as saying that Stephen Hawking shouldn't be allowed to be a scientist.

Or Churchill to have been PM during WW2

 

[pork pie fox]

From the BBC website.....

The man suspected of deliberately crashing a Germanwings A320 plane in the French Alps required treatment for depression, German media say.
Regular assessments were recommended in Andreas Lubitz's official notes after a serious episode some years ago

Also from the BBC:

February 2015: Undergoes diagnosis at Duesseldorf University Clinic for an unspecified illness; clinic has clarified the illness was not depression

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32087203

There's a lot of speculation out there at the moment. Why don't we just wait for something more concrete, before we jump to any conclusions.

 

[spionfox]

There's a lot of speculation out there at the moment. Why don't we just wait for something more concrete, before we jump to any conclusions.

You are right, of course.

The one thing that seems pretty undeniable at the moment though is that he was responsible for whatever reason.

 

[pork pie fox]

You are right, of course.

The one thing that seems pretty undeniable at the moment though is that he was responsible for whatever reason.

Agreed.

 

[Motown Fox]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rash-woke-nightmares-shouting-going-down.html


You dont know what to believe really

but not sure she wanted to admit it though

 

[RHYDAL]

On the more general point that I think caused the ire of NN Fox, it is obscene to think that just because someone has a mental health condition, they are not capable of undertaking jobs with serious levels of physical responsibility. Thinking of this argument in reverse, to me it is as stupid as saying that Stephen Hawking shouldn't be allowed to be a scientist.

Crazy argument. Nobody is saying Stephen Hawking can't be a scientist, I'm saying he can't be a pilot.

 

[Brown Nose]

Crazy argument. Nobody is saying Stephen Hawking can't be a scientist, I'm saying he can't be a pilot.

You've missed my point.

However, I can guarantee that your life has been in the hands of many, many people with mental health issues. Where does your segregation of the millions with mental health issues end for you? Remember that we're talking about a quarter of the population each year.

If you're banning those with mental health conditions from flying planes, what about police officers or teachers or care workers or government ministers or people working in power stations or the armed forces or bus drivers or . . . ?

 

[camberwell fox]

You've missed my point.

However, I can guarantee that your life has been in the hands of many, many people with mental health issues. Where does your segregation of the millions with mental health issues end for you? Remember that we're talking about a quarter of the population each year.

If you're banning those with mental health conditions from flying planes, what about police officers or teachers or care workers or government ministers or people working in power stations or the armed forces or bus drivers or . . . ?

...The Welsh?