Scottish Independence

[Brown Nose]

Media focus was already quite big but it's clearly ramping up ahead of next weeks vote.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29115556

Why are so many mainstream politicians so anti-independence? Surely, it is a matter for the people of Scotland to decide on the basis of their own identity. Why is politics so important in the debate anyway? I see it as a cultural issue more than a political one. Scottish people love to see England lose. They increasingly seem to want to distinguish themselves from the rest of us. I don't see anything wrong with that but we're hardly 'United' or 'Great' together. Why such a fuss?

From a political perspective, since the establishment of the Scottish parliament and reading this article, which is desperately saying that a 'no' vote would lead to further powers devolving north, what's the point of the UK? Surely, we're either together or we're not. Already we have a situation whereby education, care, spending is different in Scotland to England. For example, you don't pay tuition fees in Scotland. At what point does it become silly to pretend we're 'better together'? We already have Scottish politicians voting on things in England with English politicians unable to do the other way round.

Can't help thinking that the whole thing is a right old mess. I started out not caring, but the implications of a 'no' vote now make me hope they vote 'yes'.

I'd be interested in the views of others.

 

[Mawsley]

Alex likes tits to be independent.

 

[Macky]

Why are so many mainstream politicians so anti-independence?

The Westminster cabal want to keep to keep ultimate power and control in their own hands and to keep the oil revenues flowing into the Treasury.
They've gambled that by not giving the Scottish electorate the option to allow them to vote for full devolution on the ballot and by using the media to scaremonger them with the absurd 'Better Together' campaign that the Scots won't opt for leaving the union.
Hopefully this will backfire horribly on them.

 

[Brown Nose]

The Westminster cabal want to keep to keep ultimate power and control in their own hands and to keep the oil revenues flowing into the Treasury.
They've gambled that by not giving the Scottish electorate the option to allow them to vote for full devolution on the ballot and by using the media to scaremonger them with the absurd 'Better Together' campaign that the Scots won't opt for leaving the union.
Hopefully this will backfire horribly on them.

The oil revenues will be subject to heated debate following a yes vote. After all, it is British money that has established them, not Scottish. This income is also finite and falling so it is absurd to make such a decision based upon something so short-term. This decision is for ever.

I don't understand what is the extra power of Scotland being part of Britain? Britain won't be poorer without Scotland as they are net beneficiaries in terms of taxation. Scotland only makes up 8% of the population so it's hardly going to shatter our power and reputation across the world as an economy. What power does Westminster get from having Scotland as part of Britain?

I can only imagine that the concern is due to the potential for a breakdown of the rest of Britain (Wales), Northern Ireland and other territories, such as Gibraltar and the Falklands. Maybe if Scotland go, the fear is that it will lead to the rest wanting independence. But so what? All this is based on nonsense history anyway. It really puzzles me to see politicians united from all sides all desperately arguing against it.

There is of course a royal element that may be sensitive. Can he remain the Duke of Edinburgh? Surely not. They'd also have to lose their holidays at Balmoral. Poor them. I'm sure there are more peculiar things that would be affected. Frankly, the more ridiculous the royal family appear, the happier I am. I'm all for them being negotiated out to Scotland as part of the deal anyway.

Ultimately, it is great to see people peacefully determine their own future for their own reasons.

 

[homer]

It will cost an absolute feckin' fortune, and take forever, to disassociate Scotland from the rest of the UK.

No politician in their right mind wants to deal with that stupidly expensive can of worms. Will be a millstone round their neck for the next ten years trying to sort it out, and pay for it.

 

[Real Sharapova]

It will cost an absolute feckin' fortune, and take forever, to disassociate Scotland from the rest of the UK.

No politician in their right mind wants to deal with that stupidly expensive can of worms. Will be a millstone round their neck for the next ten years trying to sort it out, and pay for it.

Being half Scottish myself, I should hold strong views in this, but I don't. The one thing that does worry me, and I agree with Homer here, it that it will be hideously expensive to engineer the split. And it's us poor sods who will end up paying.

 

[From Gradel to Grave]

The Tories' full name is the Conservative and Unionist Party and Cameron doesn't want to be the PM that blew it.

Labour know there will be a lurch to the right and that Scottish MPs give them governments.

 

[Brown Nose]

It will cost an absolute feckin' fortune, and take forever, to disassociate Scotland from the rest of the UK.

No politician in their right mind wants to deal with that stupidly expensive can of worms. Will be a millstone round their neck for the next ten years trying to sort it out, and pay for it.

Why should it cost England and Wales anything much? We just cross their name off of everything, take the pound off them, stop supporting everything and leave them to it. The cost and hassle will all be at their end surely.

 

[jb5000]

It would be an absolute disaster for the large part of England that is not in and around London. Too much national policy has been set for the City rather than the rest of the country, losing Scotland would only tilt the inbalance further.

 

[Macky]

Why should it cost England and Wales anything much? We just cross their name off of everything, take the pound off them, stop supporting everything and leave them to it. The cost and hassle will all be at their end surely.

How exactly would you "take the pound off them"? Scotland, or any other country on the planet, can use the pound if they so wish and there's realistically **** all that Westminster could do about it.

 

[Macky]

The oil revenues will be subject to heated debate following a yes vote. After all, it is British money that has established them, not Scottish. This income is also finite and falling so it is absurd to make such a decision based upon something so short-term.

There isn't anything to debate, heated or not, the current oil fields have a conservative estimate of 30 years remaining and are in Scottish territorial waters. There are also new finds yet to be exploited that Camoron is trying desperately to keep under wraps

 

[Jeff]

If we stop the Scots coming to England the local supermarkets here would lose half their staff.
Not a problem though, we can get some Eastern Europeans to do the job. They speak better English anyway.

 

[pork pie fox]

I know quite a lot of Scots, as I work up there each year and they're pretty much all against it. This adds absolutely nothing to the debate, but it still surprises me how close the polls are, given the feedback I get from those I know.

 

[Motown Fox]

We spoke to local people in Eyemouth when we were there last week whilst holidaying in Berwick and they were well against it. There were signs all over for both YES and NO, in one instance two big signs for each were next door to each other on a main road.

One set of people owned a cafe on the dockside and said they were set against it and said they feared for their business if the YES vote came out on top. They had already this year had a flood which came about 3-4 feet up the inside wall.
We also saw in the cliff face facing the beach that someone had scrawled YES.
So it seems like it might be a very close vote.

In Berwick too they are concerned as a lot of their business relates to Scotland and many Scottish people work and do business there

 

[Brown Nose]

How exactly would you "take the pound off them"? Scotland, or any other country on the planet, can use the pound if they so wish and there's realistically **** all that Westminster could do about it.

The pound is owned and controlled by the Bank of England. Therefore, it is only legal tender in countries that the BofE sets monetary policy for. If the BofE stops supplying, restocking and supporting the currency in Scotland, that's that. The BofE won't accept currency from banks/business and people in Scotland. They can set up a Band of Scotland and use a Scottish Pound, but it will be a completely separate currency.

Given the total shambles that is the 'euro', why on earth would England and Wales allow another country to use its currency? It's one of the key flaws in the 'yes' campaign, the fact that they don't have a currency plan.

 

[Brown Nose]

There isn't anything to debate, heated or not, the current oil fields have a conservative estimate of 30 years remaining and are in Scottish territorial waters. There are also new finds yet to be exploited that Camoron is trying desperately to keep under wraps

Even if they took total ownership of all the oil, which they won't and can't, would they really base an entire future around 30 years worth of revenue from it? Sounds totally potty.

 

[Brown Nose]

Anyway, the argument for North Sea oil going to Scotland is a territorial one. Not a legal or sensible one, just a territorial one.

Here's another territorial argument. As Scotland comprises one third of the territory of the UK, they should take on one third of the UKs debt, which is approximately £435 billion. In one stroke, Scotland is bankrupt even if it gets all the oil.

Scotland currently receive about 10% more back per head of population in taxation than people from the rest of the UK. Therefore, in order to maintain their current standard of living, they need to increase their income. However, the SNP want to increase spending in all sorts of areas which will necessitate some extraordinary increases in taxation or cuts elsewhere. And that is nothing to the cost of setting up their own systems of healthcare, welfare, etc. Their only answer to this is North Sea oil revenue. This is barking mad.

 

[bocadillo]

Even if they took total ownership of all the oil [...] would they really base an entire future around 30 years worth of revenue from it?

Of course they would. The potty Mr Salmond would say or do anything which he feels will would support his aims.

Sounds totally potty.

I refer the honourable gentleman to the response I made a few moments ago.

 

[bocadillo]

Scotland currently receive about 10% more back per head of population in taxation than people from the rest of the UK. Therefore, in order to maintain their current standard of living, they need to increase their income. However, the SNP want to increase spending in all sorts of areas which will necessitate some extraordinary increases in taxation or cuts elsewhere. And that is nothing to the cost of setting up their own systems of healthcare, welfare, etc. Their only answer to this is North Sea oil revenue. This is barking mad.

No surprise there then.

 

[bocadillo]

How exactly would you "take the pound off them"? Scotland, or any other country on the planet, can use the pound if they so wish and there's realistically **** all that Westminster could do about it.

What would be the point of Scotland, or any other country that wanted to be a real country, using a currency over which they had no control?