Suspected suicide bomber shot

[Brauny Blue]

If this man had ran down the street rather than onto a crowded tube, i wonder if the police would have taken the same action. It could be that is choice of direction decided his fate.

 

[Steven]

This article in the Times is spot on.

Oops, sorry, won't do. We can't just shrug our shoulders over this shooting

Tim Hames

THE POLICE, according to a Sunday newspaper yesterday, fear a “backlash in the Muslim community” after the fatal shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes, an innocent Brazilian electrician, at Stockwell Tube station on Friday. What the police should fear is a backlash from the entire civilised community. Yet there is no evidence that either the politicians or the public will provide it. The theme has been that this was a tragic “mistake”, but one which was unavoidable, even inevitable, in the current climate.

The breadth of the coalition of “Oh dear, but . . . ” in this instance is astonishing. Ken Livingstone, the Mayor of London, who can normally be relied on for controversy, has declined to condemn either the specifics of this event or the shoot-to-kill strategy behind it. The Liberal Democrats, whose purpose in life, surely, is to defend civil rights in difficult times, are similarly reticent. Muslim Labour MPs, such as Khalid Mahmood have urged caution. Even Shami Chakrabarti, the director of Liberty, has given warning against a “rush to judgment”. It has been left to the Brazilian Government to express anger about the manner in which Mr Menezes died.

It should not be angry alone. I am a hardliner on the War on Terror and remain a hawk on the invasion of Iraq and its aftermath. But if al-Qaeda has created an atmosphere in which an ordinary person can have five bullets pumped into him by the police, and society shrugs its shoulders, then the terrorists have already won a modest victory.

The inconsistency bordering on callousness of Scotland Yard has been breathtaking. It was initially suggested that Mr Menezes was under surveillance and had been approached after he walked from his residence in Stockwell to the Tube station. It is now clear that he started his trip from Tulse Hill, where he had stayed at someone else’s home, was watched, was noted wearing bulky clothing, yet was allowed (despite the slaughter at Tavistock Square on July 7 and the attempted blast on a double-decker at Hackney last Thursday) to board a bus for a 15-minute journey and was challenged only when he sought to buy an Underground ticket. Why was someone whom the police continue to insist was a “potential suicide-bomber” no menace on the No 2 bus, but an urgent threat who had to be taken out when moving in the direction of the Northern Line?

And then there was the attempt to “spin” this situation to suit the police immediately after the shooting. It must have been obvious within minutes that the man concerned had no explosives on him and it is highly likely that he had identifying documentation. Yet for hours on Friday police sources were briefing that this shooting was “directly connected” to their inquiries into the botched bombings of July 21 and over the weekend the implication rumbled on that he had lived in, or perhaps near, or somewhere quite close to, multi-occupancy accommodation that had been deemed “suspicious”.

This attempt to blame Mr Menezes for his own death continues unabated. It was hinted that he might have been an illegal immigrant, as if that justifies what occurred. It has been argued that it was “irresponsible” of him to wear a quilted jacket in July, as if that were a crime. There are, furthermore, “no excuses”, it is intoned, for the fact that he ran when armed plainclothed police officers shouted at him.

I don’t know about you, but if I found myself minding my own business on the São Paulo metro and was suddenly confronted by men wearing no uniforms but wielding weapons, screaming at me in Portuguese, I too might choose to bolt for it. It was not merely the police but their victim who had to make a split-second decision.

At a minimum, the Metropolitan Police should be expressing something a little stronger than “regret” and admitting unambiguous, if partially understandable, responsibility for this outrage. Yet the spirit in which they are operating was summed up by Lord Stevens, the former Commissioner of the Met, in his News of the World column yesterday. Now Sir John Stevens, as he was, was an admirable public servant and he does make a number of compelling points about the pressure that the police are under and the unique dangers posed by suicide bombers. Even so, to dismiss this death as an “error” that should not result in the shoot-to-kill policy being reviewed verges on the sadistic. “My heart goes out,” Lord Stevens wrote, not to the Menezes family, but to “the officer who killed the man in Stockwell Tube Station.” Well, up to a point, Lord Copper.

There should be three consequences of this terrible tragedy. The first is that every aspect of the investigation that will be conducted by the Independent Police Complaints Commission should be published. There must not be the slightest possibility that the Metropolitan Police might be covering up its embarrassment by, for example, citing “operational reasons” why the decisions taken last Friday morning cannot be scrutinised. The second is that the shoot-to-kill policy has to be re-examined. There is a world of difference between a plainclothes policeman finding himself riding on the Tube and spotting a man with a large bag behaving in a manner that makes him a potential suicide bomber and shooting him, and chasing a person on to a train carriage and firing at him.

The final and most important aspect relates to Mr Menezes and his loved ones. This man was, in effect, as much a victim of the London bombs of July 7 as those who died then. It is inconceivable that he would have been killed by the police if those terrorist atrocities had not happened. His name should be included among those who will be supported by the fund that was set up to help those left behind after those murders. We must be honest about how his awful death took place and be ready to learn the lessons.

Source

 

[Joe_Fox]

This article in the Times is spot on.



Source

You're right Steven, spot on, good post.

 

[lazzer]

yeah you right to tell him he was spot on joe....well done

 

[Joe_Fox]

yeah you right to tell him he was spot on joe....well done

I just thought it was spot on aswell Lazzer, amd was glad Steven had posted it - I wouldn't have read it otherwise as I prefer the Star. What's up with you today - you seem a bit peeved.

 

[lazzer]

I just thought it was spot on aswell Lazzer, amd was glad Steven had posted it - I wouldn't have read it otherwise as I prefer the Star. What's up with you today - you seem a bit peeved.

im fine joe :icon_lol:

 

[Joe_Fox]

im fine joe :icon_lol:

Good stuff, Congrats on 7 grand mate!

 

[Steven]

Good stuff, Congrats on 7 grand mate!

That sneaked by. Did I spot it earlier and Congratulate you Lazzer or was I slack and let it slide by. Oh well, Congratulations lazzer. :icon_razz :icon_razz :icon_bigg :icon_bigg

 

[LS6_Fox]

 

[lazzer]

That sneaked by. Did I spot it earlier and Congratulate you Lazzer or was I slack and let it slide by. Oh well, Congratulations lazzer. :icon_razz :icon_razz :icon_bigg :icon_bigg

thank you stevo and joe

 

[Steven]

Dodgier by the moment. :icon_sad:

Brazilian did not wear bulky jacket

Relatives say Met admits that, contrary to reports, electrician did not leap tube station barrier

Jean Charles de Menezes, the Brazilian shot dead in the head, was not wearing a heavy jacket that might have concealed a bomb, and did not jump the ticket barrier when challenged by armed plainclothes police, his cousin said yesterday.

Speaking at a press conference after a meeting with the Metropolitan police, Vivien Figueiredo, 22, said that the first reports of how her 27-year-old cousin had come to be killed in mistake for a suicide bomber on Friday at Stockwell tube station were wrong.

"He used a travel card," she said. "He had no bulky jacket, he was wearing a jeans jacket. But even if he was wearing a bulky jacket that wouldn't be an excuse to kill him."

Flanked by the de Menezes family's solicitor, Gareth Peirce, and by Bianca Jagger, the anti-Iraq war campaigner, she condemned the shoot-to-kill policy which had led to her cousin's death and vowed that what she called the "crime" would not go unpunished.

"My cousin was an honest and hard working person," said Ms Figueiredo who shared a flat with him in Tulse Hill, south London. "Although we are living in circumstances similar to a war, we should not be exterminating people unjustly."

Another cousin, Patricia da Silva Armani, 21, said he was in Britain legally to work and study, giving him no reason to fear the police. "An innocent man has been killed as though he was a terrorist," she said. "An incredibly grave error was committed by the British police."

Mr de Menezes was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder at 10am last Friday after being followed from Tulse Hill. Scotland Yard initially claimed he wore a bulky jacket and jumped the barrier when police identified themselves and ordered him to stop. The same day the Met commissioner, Sir Ian Blair, said the shooting was "directly linked" to the unprecedented anti-terror operation on London's streets.

The following day Sir Ian apologised when detectives established that the Brazilian electrician, on his way to a job in north-west London, was not connected to attempts to blow up three underground trains and a bus in the capital.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission has began an inquiry which is expected to take several months. Yesterday it emerged one armed officer involved has been given leave, and two have been moved to non-firearm duties. Ms Figuerdo condemned Sir Ian's decision to authorise the leave, saying she wanted to see the man who shot her cousin, and he should be in jail.

The body of Mr de Menezes is being flown to Brazil tonight for a funeral tomorrow. Simultaneously, a memorial service will be held at Westminster Cathedral, with TV coverage beamed live to Brazil.

Ms Peirce condemned Sir Ian's statements on the case, saying there had been a "regrettable rush to judgment".

She was astonished that the phrase "shoot to kill" was being used as if it was a legitimate legal term; the family would demand "transparency" both as to the facts of what had happened and on the policy.

She added that the family were ready to cooperate with the complaints body, and she saw no reason for delay: "They know what their questions are and we see no reasons why they should not be answered.

Source

 

[Steven]

Click here

"Police have been given orders to shoot to kill if they believe someone is about to detonate a bomb."

Hopefully they won't get too trigger happy and shoot incident people

Where was the bomb ? Sadly everyone is way off the beam. It seems his crime was to run to catch the Tube as it was coming on to the platform. :icon_cry: :icon_sad:

Mistakes led to tube shooting
6.57PM, Tue Aug 16 2005

ITV News has obtained secret documents and photographs that detail why police shot Jean Charles De Menezes dead on the tube.

The Brazilian electrician was killed on 22 July, the day after the series of failed bombings on the tube and bus network.

The crucial mistake that ultimately led to his death was made at 9.30am when Jean Charles left his flat in Scotia Road, South London.

Surveillance officers wrongly believed he could have been Hussain Osman, one of the prime suspects, or another terrorist suspect.

By 10am that morning, elite firearms officers were provided with what they describe as "positive identification" and shot De Menezes eight times in the head and upper body.

The documents and photographs confirm that Jean Charles was not carrying any bags, and was wearing a denim jacket, not a bulky winter coat, as had previously been claimed.

He was behaving normally, and did not vault the barriers, even stopping to pick up a free newspaper.

He started running when we saw a tube at the platform. Police HAD agreed they would shoot a suspect if he ran.

Source

 

[highland fox]

Click here


Hopefully they won't get too trigger happy and shoot incident people

Of course not LS6 that would never happen in this Country........

 

[Steven]

Click here

"Police have been given orders to shoot to kill if they believe someone is about to detonate a bomb."

Hopefully they won't get too trigger happy and shoot incident people

The same Coppers are out shooting someone else. :icon_conf :icon_conf :icon_conf :icon_roll If they think they are at risk one wonders whether they are up to their job in the first place. How many more will die.

Officers involved in the fatal shooting of Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes took part in another police operation which led to a man being shot dead

 

[fcukcov]

The same Coppers are out shooting someone else. :icon_conf :icon_conf :icon_conf :icon_roll If they think they are at risk one wonders whether they are up to their job in the first place. How many more will die.

Officers involved in the fatal shooting of Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes took part in another police operation which led to a man being shot dead

Feckin hell steven innocent until proven guilty ffs. We dont know the details how do we know the guy in the bank wasnt waving a gun in everyones faces. Wait for the full details before you start ripping them apart. If it turns out he was upto nothing (which I dont suspect for one minute being involved in a suspected armed robbery in a bank) then rip them apart but give them a fair hearing first.

 

[highland fox]

Feckin hell steven innocent until proven guilty ffs. We dont know the details how do we know the guy in the bank wasnt waving a gun in everyones faces. Wait for the full details before you start ripping them apart. If it turns out he was upto nothing (which I dont suspect for one minute being involved in a suspected armed robbery in a bank) then rip them apart but give them a fair hearing first.

Tell that to the Brazillians relatives.. but I get your point

 

[fcukcov]

Tell that to the Brazillians relatives.. but I get your point

I thought that when i was typing it but that is past now and we seem to know most of the details of that and it was a grave error on the police officers part but it doesnt mean this was an error.

 

[OldGit]

Hardly surprising the same officers have been involved in two cases - the number of armed response officers is very limited. I couldn't find the bit in the story where they list all the other many cases they will also have been involved in but which ended peacefully.

 

[highland fox]

I thought that when i was typing it but that is past now and we seem to know most of the details of that and it was a grave error on the police officers part but it doesnt mean this was an error.

It was but they should have been punished...they got off Scotfree because it was 'an error'':icon_roll

 

[fcukcov]

Hardly surprising the same officers have been involved in two cases - the number of armed response officers is very limited. I couldn't find the bit in the story where they list all the other many cases they will also have been involved in but which ended peacefully.

its says they went to over 3000 incidents last year and im pretty sure you would have heard of an shooting post the underground incident.