Essex CC (h)

[glyn]

I'm not sure that performances against Sri Lanka A are going to be much of a guide.

I agree but you may as well reward people for performances in those kind of games, otherwise it sends no kind of message to the first-teamers

There is something very strange going on. Obviously T20 and the four day game are very different - but its difficult to reconcile the extreme variation of being highly competitive in one format and basically uncompetitive in another. I think that it has to come down to issues of motivation and particularly the motivation of the batters to buckle down. The very poor performances in the CB40 also seem to suggest that a number of players only put in a shift as and when they feel like it.

I agree, it's very odd. There is definitely more talent in the batting line-up than is evident from most of the performances although some are clearly not up to regularly scoring tons and getting a 40+ average. And then you have someone like Greg Smith who seems to have the talent, is well-regarded, but would be a superman to come in to the team during this period and start scoring runs (and I know that Thakor/Jones/Cobb will face a similarly daunting challenge).

Of course as well as the batting the seam bowling unit this year has not performed like it did in 2010, which puts pressure on the batsmen. Although a score of 320 is hardly scoreboard pressure, especially when you are 100/0!

 

[Redditch Fox]

I agree, it's very odd. There is definitely more talent in the batting line-up than is evident from most of the performances although some are clearly not up to regularly scoring tons and getting a 40+ average. And then you have someone like Greg Smith who seems to have the talent, is well-regarded, but would be a superman to come in to the team during this period and start scoring runs (and I know that Thakor/Jones/Cobb will face a similarly daunting challenge).

Of course as well as the batting the seam bowling unit this year has not performed like it did in 2010, which puts pressure on the batsmen. Although a score of 320 is hardly scoreboard pressure, especially when you are 100/0!

I only went to the first day of this match but I sensed a lack of energy.

My impression from conversations with former first class batsmen is that someone coming into the side would relish the opportunities to play a stand out innings in a poorly performing side. I don't think they would find it daunting - quite the reverse - if no one else is getting runs then you don't have to do so much to impress. infact generally I would say that most professional batsmen are more absorbed by their own performances than other factors - in the first class game. My best guess is that in the case of Leicestershire that they have lost a lot of focus on both their individual performances and the team's in everything but the T20.

 

[glyn]

I see that Will Jones made 159 for the seconds.

But given that Boyce and Cobb shared a 400 stand earlier in the season, I know that doesn't mean much.

 

[Redditch Fox]

I see that Will Jones made 159 for the seconds.

But given that Boyce and Cobb shared a 400 stand earlier in the season, I know that doesn't mean much.

Its fast approaching that time in the season when promising players should be given an opportunity - and decisions need to be taken about the contracts of those who have been unconvincing for a long time.

Its complicated because of the disparity between T20 and performances in other formats - but the likes of Du Toit and Tom New and i would include Boyce too have never fully convinced .Its ok talking about ability and potential but eventually surely you have to be looking for people who could do better.

 

[Ian Marshall]

I only went to the first day of this match but I sensed a lack of energy.

My impression from conversations with former first class batsmen is that someone coming into the side would relish the opportunities to play a stand out innings in a poorly performing side. I don't think they would find it daunting - quite the reverse - if no one else is getting runs then you don't have to do so much to impress. infact generally I would say that most professional batsmen are more absorbed by their own performances than other factors - in the first class game. My best guess is that in the case of Leicestershire that they have lost a lot of focus on both their individual performances and the team's in everything but the T20.

I realise that I'm talking village cricket and you are talking County cricket, but I completely agree. I find my best innings, and the ones in which I am most determined and motivated come when the club really needs it, when the chips are down and others are not performing.

As regards the issues of who to keep, sadly I think Boyce has had his chips now. He's a reasonable enough bat at times and does show good technique and promise, but he gets set and then squanders his wicket. He too rarely goes on to make big runs. For me, he's not really an opening bat anyway, we just only really have one in the squad (Jefferson). I expect he's on peanuts so not a problem having him as a squad player if he's happy with that, but realistically we need an opening bat.

I thought Cobb might be the man, but he seems to be a specialist one day weapon (wahey!) - talent is talent though - he did get a 200 at Lords a few years ago in the long form of the game. He needs to knuckle down and become our number 1 opening bat (with the advantage of being a useful spinner to turn to with the ball).

 

[Redditch Fox]

I realise that I'm talking village cricket and you are talking County cricket, but I completely agree. I find my best innings, and the ones in which I am most determined and motivated come when the club really needs it, when the chips are down and others are not performing.

.

Cricketers are mainly interested about their own performances. Its not much comfort if the side has made 400 and is in a strong position and you were out for less than 10. In the real world the captain doesn't come along and say "don't worry it's a team game after all". I think batters have to be selfish and absorbed in their own performance.

On Boyce, just when I think he is about to be put out to the seconds long term, he comes in and rminds everyone that he has a nice range of shots. But it doesn't go beyond that. I don't think there is much doubt that Cobb is more talented and a lot more potentially destructive than Boyce but I don't think he is an opener in the longer format.....too vulnerable to a bit of early movement with the red ball. Nonetheless if there was a bit more imagination then they could use Cobb instead of White. True, it would leave them short of a third seamer....but is Cobb's occasional slow balling any less effective than White being carved all over the place.

 

[Ian Marshall]

Cricketers are mainly interested about their own performances. Its not much comfort if the side has made 400 and is in a strong position and you were out for less than 10. In the real world the captain doesn't come along and say "don't worry it's a team game after all". I think batters have to be selfish and absorbed in their own performance.

On Boyce, just when I think he is about to be put out to the seconds long term, he comes in and rminds everyone that he has a nice range of shots. But it doesn't go beyond that. I don't think there is much doubt that Cobb is more talented and a lot more potentially destructive than Boyce but I don't think he is an opener in the longer format.....too vulnerable to a bit of early movement with the red ball. Nonetheless if there was a bit more imagination then they could use Cobb instead of White. True, it would leave them short of a third seamer....but is Cobb's occasional slow balling any less effective than White being carved all over the place.

Easy to say from behind a screen in an office and not on a pitch running short of ideas, but if I was skipper, I don't think Wayne White would get much of a bowl. One in ten times he's brilliant. Three in ten times he's mediocre. Six in ten times he is awful.

I'm a big supporter of Josh Cobb, which does cloud my judgement a little, but I think he could be honed and trained as an opener, he really just does need to knuckle down for the first 20 overs. I really don't understand why not in the champ side, even as a big hitting number 5 or 6?

 

[glyn]

I really don't understand why not in the champ side, even as a big hitting number 5 or 6?

Unfortunately I think this will explain it
http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Players/111/111182/f_Batting_by_Season.html

But I agree I'd give him another chance with a new role in the team.