Post Match Leicester 2 Fleetwood 0

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In the Willian case, all the VAR can do is confirm whether there was zero, small or great contact by the defender.

In this case VAR probably said zero or minimal contact. The ref decided that Willian had dived because there was virtually no contact to create such a spectacular 'trip'.

The law is not about whether there is contact or not. There is very often contact.

A few matches ago, I saw Morgan shepherding the ball over the goal byline inside the penalty area. He shoulder barged the attacker away from the ball. The referee awarded a goal kick. No card, no talking to Morgan.

Penalties are not about contact. They are judgements about the intentions of the defender to get to the ball or just take out the attacker.
 
Mike - True Blue Tinter said:
Penalties are not about contact. They are judgements about the intentions of the defender to get to the ball or just take out the attacker.
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No they aren't. The defender may be trying to get the ball but if he takes the man instead it's a penalty, regardless of intent to do so. The rules are pretty clear. Like I say, last night there were five ex-professional footballers and a commentator who all agreed that it was without any shadow of a doubt, a penalty kick. If VAR isn't going to correct errors that are as clear as they were in that instance, and it was very clear to most, it's pointless. That would have taken less than a minute to reverse. The system works perfectly well in cricket and it should in football.
 
popillius said:
No they aren't. The defender may be trying to get the ball but if he takes the man instead it's a penalty, regardless of intent to do so. The rules are pretty clear. Like I say, last night there were five ex-professional footballers and a commentator who all agreed that it was without any shadow of a doubt, a penalty kick. If VAR isn't going to correct errors that are as clear as they were in that instance, and it was very clear to most, it's pointless. That would have taken less than a minute to reverse. The system works perfectly well in cricket and it should in football.
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In would add the caveat that many ex-pros are not that clued up on the laws if the game.
 
Real Sharapova said:
In would add the caveat that many ex-pros are not that clued up on the laws if the game.
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Whether or not that is true, the person manning the VAR system should be. It was still a penalty as plain as day however it's spun. It's no coincidence that nearly all of the press articles associated with that game also cite the ineptitude of VAR not being able to change what they describe as a clear penalty.
 
popillius said:
No they aren't. The defender may be trying to get the ball but if he takes the man instead it's a penalty, regardless of intent to do so. The rules are pretty clear. Like I say, last night there were five ex-professional footballers and a commentator who all agreed that it was without any shadow of a doubt, a penalty kick. If VAR isn't going to correct errors that are as clear as they were in that instance, and it was very clear to most, it's pointless. That would have taken less than a minute to reverse. The system works perfectly well in cricket and it should in football.
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Little bit off topic, but one of those pundits I assume was Jermaine Jenas who said the most ridiculous comment below regarding Morata’s yellow card for diving:

“It’s a tough one though, because there is contact, so he’s within his rights to go down”.

It beggars belief how these ex pro’s don’t know the rules and get paid to talk such absolute nonsense.

Anyway...my view on the Willian one is that I think it was a penalty. But again similar to the Iborra one, I think if you asked 20 refs it wouldn’t be unanimous. I thought the yellow card for diving though was ridiculous.

It seems like VAR is only for the most obvious clear cut decisions where they can draw fancy blue lines on the pitch for offsides, or where they can pick up mistaken identity etc. I quite like that as it still leaves us all debating decisions which I would miss if it went. The things they want to use it for demonstrates a good “second step” in my opinion, with the excellent goal line technology a good first step when that came in a few years ago. The rest could come at a later date.
 
popillius said:
No they aren't. The defender may be trying to get the ball but if he takes the man instead it's a penalty, regardless of intent to do so. The rules are pretty clear. Like I say, last night there were five ex-professional footballers and a commentator who all agreed that it was without any shadow of a doubt, a penalty kick. If VAR isn't going to correct errors that are as clear as they were in that instance, and it was very clear to most, it's pointless. That would have taken less than a minute to reverse. The system works perfectly well in cricket and it should in football.
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The Difference is those 5 ex professional footballers do not know the actual law and come up with bollocks like he had a right to go down, no player has the right to fall over because he has been touched, it is the typical ex pro not having the morale courage to say that the player dived. Until players stop falling over and cheating referees will have to keep making judgement calls the solution is referring players after a game regardless of what decision the VAR gives at the time. if a player dives it should be a 3 match ban as he is blatantly cheating, again the VAR official should be telling the ref that the player has dived and he should be walking.

There is a leaf to be taken out of rugby here with yellow cards, to stop the cynical foul play and play acting if the player is booked he should be off for 20 mins, if that was the case when Man city played us and Vardy was brought down I bet that defender would have thought twice before stopping him and taking one for the team.
 
City Fan said:
Little bit off topic, but one of those pundits I assume was Jermaine Jenas who said the most ridiculous comment below regarding Morata’s yellow card for diving:

“It’s a tough one though, because there is contact, so he’s within his rights to go down”.

It beggars belief how these ex pro’s don’t know the rules and get paid to talk such absolute nonsense.

Anyway...my view on the Willian one is that I think it was a penalty. But again similar to the Iborra one, I think if you asked 20 refs it wouldn’t be unanimous. I thought the yellow card for diving though was ridiculous.

It seems like VAR is only for the most obvious clear cut decisions where they can draw fancy blue lines on the pitch for offsides, or where they can pick up mistaken identity etc. I quite like that as it still leaves us all debating decisions which I would miss if it went. The things they want to use it for demonstrates a good “second step” in my opinion, with the excellent goal line technology a good first step when that came in a few years ago. The rest could come at a later date.
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I guess you're right really, I am probably looking at it in terms that are too black and white. I think what you said in an earlier post about still having that debate in the pub is as valid as any pragmatist's opinion and I suppose I quite like the idea of debate, as I'm sure you know!

As for Jermain Jenas - Christ on a bike! How that bloke got a gig as a pundit is beyond any comprehension.
 
big_mac4824 said:
The Difference is those 5 ex professional footballers do not know the actual law and come up with bollocks like he had a right to go down, no player has the right to fall over because he has been touched, it is the typical ex pro not having the morale courage to say that the player dived. Until players stop falling over and cheating referees will have to keep making judgement calls the solution is referring players after a game regardless of what decision the VAR gives at the time. if a player dives it should be a 3 match ban as he is blatantly cheating, again the VAR official should be telling the ref that the player has dived and he should be walking.

There is a leaf to be taken out of rugby here with yellow cards, to stop the cynical foul play and play acting if the player is booked he should be off for 20 mins, if that was the case when Man city played us and Vardy was brought down I bet that defender would have thought twice before stopping him and taking one for the team.
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I agree. But Willian didn't dive.
 
If they start giving bookings for exaggeration, and going down too easily Okazaki would be in trouble.
 
Feriol said:
If they start giving bookings for exaggeration, and going down too easily Okazaki would be in trouble.
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But he is only little. What chance does he have against those big brutes? It makes me smile when he gets a card for taking out someone nearly twice his size.
 
popillius said:
I honestly don't think so, it was a trip as far as I am concerned. Like I say, I'm probably being far too black and white about the whole thing and maybe the game does need to things to be wrong from time to time if for no other reason but to piss off people like Wenger.
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FWIW I thought he left his leg in in order to ‘draw’ the fowl, he cheated in my opinion.

If they change the law to incorporate exaggerating then it would cover more scope rather than simulation.
 
My thoughts, as I said earlier, is that Willian was jumping over the outstretched leg of Klose and caught himself on the way over, not a foul therefore not a penalty (not a dive either but that's a different debate). The Guardian article sums it up correctly (IMO) ...

In that particular incident Klose certainly flung his leg into Willian’s way, without making contact with the ball. But because his leg was on the ground as the Brazilian passed, and it appeared that Willian’s natural stride pattern would take him over Klose altogether, it could be argued that it was actually the Chelsea player who initiated the contact. This was obviously the referee’s reading of the situation, and as the VAR protocols state that “the original decision given by the referee will not be changed unless the video review clearly shows that the decision was clearly wrong” his decision had to stand, just as an on-field decision to award a penalty would also have stood.
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Totally not a penalty - as a former referee I would have done exactly the same. IMO Willan jumped and contact was only made after he had commenced his jump with both feet. He tried to make it look like a foul and frankly failed miserable.
On another note we all know why Shearer isn't going to be a fan of VAR, don't we!
 
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