M17TT C
Well-Known Member
League 2 would complete the set though....
Leicester and PSR for 23/24
- Thread starter Brown Nose
- Start date
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LoopisDeLupis
Well-Known Member
This is a difficult time to be a Leicester fan. It used to applauded for sticking with the team through thick and thin, but I can't see why it would be now.
I've no inclination at all to go to the match on Friday, even if the tickets are £15. The club - at least from the outside - looks like it is being run by completely inept morons and if the fans can see it, it baffles as to why people who work for the club cannot.
I want a reason to buy a ticket for Saturday. I just wish the club would give me one.
I've no inclination at all to go to the match on Friday, even if the tickets are £15. The club - at least from the outside - looks like it is being run by completely inept morons and if the fans can see it, it baffles as to why people who work for the club cannot.
I want a reason to buy a ticket for Saturday. I just wish the club would give me one.
homer
Well-Known Member
I’m completely with you - there is no way I’m going to the match on Friday either, I don’t care how good the pre-match entertainment is
LoopisDeLupis
Well-Known Member
ah, beans
Miles Away
Well-Known Member
Relegation-threatened Leicester face nightmare points deduction over possible spending breach
East Midlands club unlikely to avoid return to Championship if they are found to have breached profitability and sustainability rules
John Percy09 January 2025 9:09am GMT
Jamie Vardy and his Leicester City team-mates will discover the club’s fate in the coming days Credit: PA/Mike Egerton
Leicester City are enduring a difficult season on their return to the Premier League and next week will discover if it becomes even more turbulent.
By Tuesday at the latest, Leicester will be informed if they have breached profitability and sustainability rules (PSR) for the second time in 10 months.
If Leicester are found to have exceeded the permitted losses of £83 million over a three-year reporting period, they will join Everton and Nottingham Forest as the latest club to face punishment over PSR.
Everton and Forest were both deducted points last season and a similar outcome for Leicester is a nightmare scenario for a club already in relegation trouble.
The usual threshold for Premier League clubs is £105 million over three years, but Leicester’s allowance is lower – £83 million – as they spent the 2023-24 season in the Championship. While the outcome is shrouded in confidentiality, there is little doubt that it will be a close-run thing.
Leicester announced losses of £92.5 million and £89.7 million in the past two years but, privately, have been confident of avoiding sanctions.
After relegation to the Championship in May 2023 they raised over £90 million in the next financial year with the sales of Harvey Barnes (£38 million to Newcastle), Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall (£30 million to Chelsea) and Timothy Castagne (£13.5 million to Fulham), while Chelsea paid £10 million in compensation to appoint Enzo Maresca and his coaching staff.
To be clear, Dewsbury-Hall’s sale to Chelsea was officially announced on July 2 but completed in time to be included in the 2023-24 accounts.
Several high earners, including Youri Tielemans, Jonny Evans and Caglar Soyuncu departed as free agents, while the remaining players took wage cuts between 35 to 50 per cent.
Permitted add-backs, which are costs recognised to be in the general interest of the club, are also included, such as expenditure towards women’s football, training ground sponsorship, community development, the academy and depreciation.
Will it all be enough?
Respected football finance account Swiss Ramble has predicted an overshoot of £12 million, but only Leicester and the Premier League’s financial and legal departments will know the precise details.The argument about whether Leicester are entitled to lose £105 million or £83 million could be crucial, perhaps dependent on how legislation is worded in the Premier League’s rules.
There is a suspicion among other top-flight clubs that the Premier League is ready to adopt a hardline stance with Leicester.
In September last year, the 2015-16 title winners successfully won a legal row with the Premier League over an alleged breach.
With the assistance of sports lawyer Nick De Marco KC, Leicester argued that the charge for breaching PSR in 2022-23 could not be applied as they had already been relegated when the accounts were completed in June 2023.
It was a development which angered the governing body and left other clubs stunned. Loophole or not, it was certainly an unexpected escape.
Since that moment, and for months before, Leicester’s financial team have worked tirelessly to lower the club’s cost base and attempt to comply.
In November, manager Steve Cooper was sacked in a move which cost the club millions in compensation. Owner Aiyawatt “Top” Srivaddhanaprabha made the decision but was annoyed to be forced into action as it was unplanned expenditure (though outside the current financial year being examined).
Leicester are not expected to spend large sums of money in the January transfer window.
They are keen to end Crystal Palace forward Odsonne Édouard’s loan deal prematurely and the priority signings at this stage are cheap full-backs.
The bleak reality is that Leicester’s issues with the rules are not going away any time soon.
Even if relegation is avoided this season, Leicester will return to the model of selling one key player every summer to assist with PSR compliance.
Mads Hermansen, the Danish goalkeeper, has emerged as the most likely sale after impressing in the Premier League this season.
Rival clubs have been made aware of his potential availability and in the recent 2-2 draw with Brighton, Hermansen was watched by Manchester United’s chief goalkeeping scout, Tony Coton.
Another player who could have generated cash was winger Abdul Fatawu, but a serious knee injury ended his season, which leaves Hermansen as the most coveted asset.
Leicester are extremely unhappy and believe the club have been unfairly scrutinised for displaying ambition.
Chelsea have sold hotels and even their women’s team, while the saga over Manchester City’s 115 charges still rumbles on.
Leicester feel they are facing potential punishment for simply daring to challenge the “big six”.
Many supporters, however, point to alleged mismanagement off the field, including poor recruitment and a gravy train of lucrative contracts for average players.
With those players on significant deals, buyers have been scared off and the wages-to-turnover ratio has remained high.
Leicester will know by Tuesday what happens next. After five successive defeats under Ruud van Nistelrooy, another charge will represent disastrous timing.
The club’s slogan “Foxes Never Quit” is being tested to the full.
pork pie fox
Well-Known Member
"The argument about whether Leicester are entitled to lose £105 million or £83 million could be crucial, perhaps dependent on how legislation is worded in the Premier League’s rules."Relegation-threatened Leicester face nightmare points deduction over possible spending breach
East Midlands club unlikely to avoid return to Championship if they are found to have breached profitability and sustainability rules
John Percy09 January 2025 9:09am GMT
Jamie Vardy and his Leicester City team-mates will discover the club’s fate in the coming days Credit: PA/Mike Egerton
Leicester City are enduring a difficult season on their return to the Premier League and next week will discover if it becomes even more turbulent.
By Tuesday at the latest, Leicester will be informed if they have breached profitability and sustainability rules (PSR) for the second time in 10 months.
If Leicester are found to have exceeded the permitted losses of £83 million over a three-year reporting period, they will join Everton and Nottingham Forest as the latest club to face punishment over PSR.
Everton and Forest were both deducted points last season and a similar outcome for Leicester is a nightmare scenario for a club already in relegation trouble.
The usual threshold for Premier League clubs is £105 million over three years, but Leicester’s allowance is lower – £83 million – as they spent the 2023-24 season in the Championship. While the outcome is shrouded in confidentiality, there is little doubt that it will be a close-run thing.
Leicester announced losses of £92.5 million and £89.7 million in the past two years but, privately, have been confident of avoiding sanctions.
After relegation to the Championship in May 2023 they raised over £90 million in the next financial year with the sales of Harvey Barnes (£38 million to Newcastle), Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall (£30 million to Chelsea) and Timothy Castagne (£13.5 million to Fulham), while Chelsea paid £10 million in compensation to appoint Enzo Maresca and his coaching staff.
To be clear, Dewsbury-Hall’s sale to Chelsea was officially announced on July 2 but completed in time to be included in the 2023-24 accounts.
Several high earners, including Youri Tielemans, Jonny Evans and Caglar Soyuncu departed as free agents, while the remaining players took wage cuts between 35 to 50 per cent.
Permitted add-backs, which are costs recognised to be in the general interest of the club, are also included, such as expenditure towards women’s football, training ground sponsorship, community development, the academy and depreciation.
Will it all be enough?
Respected football finance account Swiss Ramble has predicted an overshoot of £12 million, but only Leicester and the Premier League’s financial and legal departments will know the precise details.
The argument about whether Leicester are entitled to lose £105 million or £83 million could be crucial, perhaps dependent on how legislation is worded in the Premier League’s rules.
There is a suspicion among other top-flight clubs that the Premier League is ready to adopt a hardline stance with Leicester.
In September last year, the 2015-16 title winners successfully won a legal row with the Premier League over an alleged breach.
With the assistance of sports lawyer Nick De Marco KC, Leicester argued that the charge for breaching PSR in 2022-23 could not be applied as they had already been relegated when the accounts were completed in June 2023.
It was a development which angered the governing body and left other clubs stunned. Loophole or not, it was certainly an unexpected escape.
Since that moment, and for months before, Leicester’s financial team have worked tirelessly to lower the club’s cost base and attempt to comply.
In November, manager Steve Cooper was sacked in a move which cost the club millions in compensation. Owner Aiyawatt “Top” Srivaddhanaprabha made the decision but was annoyed to be forced into action as it was unplanned expenditure (though outside the current financial year being examined).
Leicester are not expected to spend large sums of money in the January transfer window.
They are keen to end Crystal Palace forward Odsonne Édouard’s loan deal prematurely and the priority signings at this stage are cheap full-backs.
The bleak reality is that Leicester’s issues with the rules are not going away any time soon.
Even if relegation is avoided this season, Leicester will return to the model of selling one key player every summer to assist with PSR compliance.
Mads Hermansen, the Danish goalkeeper, has emerged as the most likely sale after impressing in the Premier League this season.
Rival clubs have been made aware of his potential availability and in the recent 2-2 draw with Brighton, Hermansen was watched by Manchester United’s chief goalkeeping scout, Tony Coton.
Another player who could have generated cash was winger Abdul Fatawu, but a serious knee injury ended his season, which leaves Hermansen as the most coveted asset.
Leicester are extremely unhappy and believe the club have been unfairly scrutinised for displaying ambition.
Chelsea have sold hotels and even their women’s team, while the saga over Manchester City’s 115 charges still rumbles on.
Leicester feel they are facing potential punishment for simply daring to challenge the “big six”.
Many supporters, however, point to alleged mismanagement off the field, including poor recruitment and a gravy train of lucrative contracts for average players.
With those players on significant deals, buyers have been scared off and the wages-to-turnover ratio has remained high.
Leicester will know by Tuesday what happens next. After five successive defeats under Ruud van Nistelrooy, another charge will represent disastrous timing.
The club’s slogan “Foxes Never Quit” is being tested to the full.
Are we going to be playing more games here
Feidlimid
Member
Of course. There's a lot at stake. We'll spin like buggery to avoid punishment and I wouldn't expect any different from any club. That said, to try and flip the 'we weren't a Prem club at the time' argument will take some chutzpah."The argument about whether Leicester are entitled to lose £105 million or £83 million could be crucial, perhaps dependent on how legislation is worded in the Premier League’s rules."
Are we going to be playing more games here
pork pie fox
Well-Known Member
Yes, as I said yesterday, all clubs will be listing figures in whatever column they can do, to try to stay within the boundaries. I'm intrigued as to whether we also try to play the dictionary definition game again, like we did before, as that's a bit different to what everybody (including us) does with the actual numbers.
Feidlimid
Member
I must admit that whether one considers it a loophole or no, I thought it a helluva gotcha moment. What's it? Hung by your own petard or somesuch. Had a slack jawed, dumfounded EPL stammering something about 'spirit of the law'. As if! Maybe they expected an argument about numbers and were blindsided.
The club again seems confident but one presumes it is with the numbers this time. It'll have to be water tight though methinks, I can't see the EPL giving us any leniency.
The club again seems confident but one presumes it is with the numbers this time. It'll have to be water tight though methinks, I can't see the EPL giving us any leniency.
City Fan
Well-Known Member
It’s all rather depressing isn’t it?Relegation-threatened Leicester face nightmare points deduction over possible spending breach
East Midlands club unlikely to avoid return to Championship if they are found to have breached profitability and sustainability rules
John Percy09 January 2025 9:09am GMT
Jamie Vardy and his Leicester City team-mates will discover the club’s fate in the coming days Credit: PA/Mike Egerton
Leicester City are enduring a difficult season on their return to the Premier League and next week will discover if it becomes even more turbulent.
By Tuesday at the latest, Leicester will be informed if they have breached profitability and sustainability rules (PSR) for the second time in 10 months.
If Leicester are found to have exceeded the permitted losses of £83 million over a three-year reporting period, they will join Everton and Nottingham Forest as the latest club to face punishment over PSR.
Everton and Forest were both deducted points last season and a similar outcome for Leicester is a nightmare scenario for a club already in relegation trouble.
The usual threshold for Premier League clubs is £105 million over three years, but Leicester’s allowance is lower – £83 million – as they spent the 2023-24 season in the Championship. While the outcome is shrouded in confidentiality, there is little doubt that it will be a close-run thing.
Leicester announced losses of £92.5 million and £89.7 million in the past two years but, privately, have been confident of avoiding sanctions.
After relegation to the Championship in May 2023 they raised over £90 million in the next financial year with the sales of Harvey Barnes (£38 million to Newcastle), Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall (£30 million to Chelsea) and Timothy Castagne (£13.5 million to Fulham), while Chelsea paid £10 million in compensation to appoint Enzo Maresca and his coaching staff.
To be clear, Dewsbury-Hall’s sale to Chelsea was officially announced on July 2 but completed in time to be included in the 2023-24 accounts.
Several high earners, including Youri Tielemans, Jonny Evans and Caglar Soyuncu departed as free agents, while the remaining players took wage cuts between 35 to 50 per cent.
Permitted add-backs, which are costs recognised to be in the general interest of the club, are also included, such as expenditure towards women’s football, training ground sponsorship, community development, the academy and depreciation.
Will it all be enough?
Respected football finance account Swiss Ramble has predicted an overshoot of £12 million, but only Leicester and the Premier League’s financial and legal departments will know the precise details.
The argument about whether Leicester are entitled to lose £105 million or £83 million could be crucial, perhaps dependent on how legislation is worded in the Premier League’s rules.
There is a suspicion among other top-flight clubs that the Premier League is ready to adopt a hardline stance with Leicester.
In September last year, the 2015-16 title winners successfully won a legal row with the Premier League over an alleged breach.
With the assistance of sports lawyer Nick De Marco KC, Leicester argued that the charge for breaching PSR in 2022-23 could not be applied as they had already been relegated when the accounts were completed in June 2023.
It was a development which angered the governing body and left other clubs stunned. Loophole or not, it was certainly an unexpected escape.
Since that moment, and for months before, Leicester’s financial team have worked tirelessly to lower the club’s cost base and attempt to comply.
In November, manager Steve Cooper was sacked in a move which cost the club millions in compensation. Owner Aiyawatt “Top” Srivaddhanaprabha made the decision but was annoyed to be forced into action as it was unplanned expenditure (though outside the current financial year being examined).
Leicester are not expected to spend large sums of money in the January transfer window.
They are keen to end Crystal Palace forward Odsonne Édouard’s loan deal prematurely and the priority signings at this stage are cheap full-backs.
The bleak reality is that Leicester’s issues with the rules are not going away any time soon.
Even if relegation is avoided this season, Leicester will return to the model of selling one key player every summer to assist with PSR compliance.
Mads Hermansen, the Danish goalkeeper, has emerged as the most likely sale after impressing in the Premier League this season.
Rival clubs have been made aware of his potential availability and in the recent 2-2 draw with Brighton, Hermansen was watched by Manchester United’s chief goalkeeping scout, Tony Coton.
Another player who could have generated cash was winger Abdul Fatawu, but a serious knee injury ended his season, which leaves Hermansen as the most coveted asset.
Leicester are extremely unhappy and believe the club have been unfairly scrutinised for displaying ambition.
Chelsea have sold hotels and even their women’s team, while the saga over Manchester City’s 115 charges still rumbles on.
Leicester feel they are facing potential punishment for simply daring to challenge the “big six”.
Many supporters, however, point to alleged mismanagement off the field, including poor recruitment and a gravy train of lucrative contracts for average players.
With those players on significant deals, buyers have been scared off and the wages-to-turnover ratio has remained high.
Leicester will know by Tuesday what happens next. After five successive defeats under Ruud van Nistelrooy, another charge will represent disastrous timing.
The club’s slogan “Foxes Never Quit” is being tested to the full.
popillius
Well-Known Member
Why on earth would they do that? If they'd have done that earlier in the season, we'd have already had a points deduction.
You can't defend your position to the Premier League whilst at the same time holding your hands up and saying 'it's a fair cop, guv, we got it wrong'.
I'm not saying that it shouldn't happen if we are found to have breached and are punished but until that fat lady has sung her last note, we need to play the innocent and stand our ground.
Feidlimid
Member
Far far too important to going do that. Way too much at stake.
Personally speaking, I think the argument is a little more than simply whether the club overspent according to PSR rules. I think we can all see that we unquestionably did. The matter for me is whether it's fair or reasonable to expect the club to have been able to do anything about it within the allowable time frames. Keep in mind that the club was never in any financial danger. There was/is sufficient in the bank, it's whether we're allowed to spend it that's being brought into question, limited even (and you wouldn't do that to any other type of business)
The club management ****ed up, got the forecasts and planning wrong and the club paid the price (relegation hit them hard financially) They committed themselves to expenditure (in player wages) that could be not be simply dropped overnight - even if they terminated contracts they'd still have to pay them up. The club can only sell players if they want to go. So we had the likes of Soyuncu et al who were quite happy to wind their lucrative contracts down. The club's powerless in that. (Maybe PSR ought consider contract termination as an allowable expense??)
Did they **** up? Abso-sodding-lutely. But I think one could reasonably argue they did everything within their legal limits and ability to rectify the situation. It won't wash of course; letter of the law they're in the wrong and done for. So I fully expect the club (indeed, ANY club) to try and make a case that will stand up.
That all said, I think we'll be found in breach and face a points deduction.
City Fan
Well-Known Member
People who care about the club.
Payne74
Well-Known Member
Leicester can play with numbers all they like but signing Skip,Édouard,Okoli and Cordova-reid were all signings that didn't improve the championship winning squad yet have pushed Leicester into breaking PSR rules or at best case scenario prevented Leicester from signing any players in the January window, any punishment Leicester get is all self inflicted.
homer
Well-Known Member
Those are in this year's accounts, not 23/24
Still utterly shite, obviously, but not relevant to this charge
SilverFox
Well-Known Member
Well I must say you sound very ITK.
Brown Nose
Well-Known Member
I am well past hoping the club manage to wriggle out of another year of incompetence.
**** 'em. The club don't give a shit about us, why care about them?
The only way back is for the club to crash and burn, forcing some action and change.
What league we play in and who plays for us is largely meh. Once Vardy is gone, I won't give a shit about any of them.
We've been there before and we'll be there again.
City Fan
Well-Known Member
Because it’s the club you have supported all your life?
It’s clear we need action and change, but I’d rather we didn’t completely crash and burn to get that.
We need mass protests against this clubs leadership.
| P | Pld | Pts | |
| 1 | Liverpool | 19 | 46 |
| 2 | Arsenal | 20 | 40 |
| 3 | Nottm F | 20 | 40 |
| 4 | Chelsea | 20 | 36 |
| 5 | Newcastle | 20 | 35 |
| 6 | Manchester C | 20 | 34 |
| 7 | Bournemouth | 20 | 33 |
| 8 | Aston Villa | 20 | 32 |
| 9 | Fulham | 20 | 30 |
| 10 | Brighton | 20 | 28 |
| 11 | Brentford | 20 | 27 |
| 12 | Tottenham | 20 | 24 |
| 13 | Manchester U | 20 | 23 |
| 14 | West Ham | 20 | 23 |
| 15 | Palace | 20 | 21 |
| 16 | Everton | 19 | 17 |
| 17 | Wolves | 20 | 16 |
| 18 | Ipswich | 20 | 16 |
| 19 | Leicester | 20 | 14 |
| 20 | Southampton | 20 | 6 |
