Leicester and PSR for 23/24

[popillius]

I happily accept that people have different opinions on this but you're missing the bit that I'm interested in.

You say 'at the moment'. I understand you don't think that moment has come.

When would be your moment? I assume that relegation and financial mismanagement aren't factors as they've already happened.

What needs to happen for you to turn on Aiyawatt as owner?

Well, the phrase 'turn on Aiyawatt' wouldn't be something I'd be happy doing at any point.

You don't want to look back on a legacy if there's nothing to look forward to and I think exactly the same. However, for us to equal or supercede the successes we have had, we would need another billionaire owner and these are hard to come by unless you want to throw every single ounce of morality out of the window and accept the blood money of a Saudi conglomerate.

We shouldn't have been in the Championship last season, but we were and we won it because we had the financial resources and could afford clever lawyers under our current owners. It isn't KP's fault that Maresca ****ed off but it is their fault that they appointed a complete failure in his place. You're right in that we need much better leaders in the club but selling to another billionaire really doesn't guarantee this so I am trying to weigh up the good against the risk and at the moment, the good in that we are a PL side who have been able to invest in players (albeit that the idiot we gave this responsibility to made a complete hash of it), finance legal protection from the PL (from self inflicted problems I grant you) and who won the Championship at a canter last season because they could invest again, in players, is far more palatable than the risk of becoming QPR or a Saudi owned plaything.

Like you say, there's no right answer and I can absolutely understand why some folk may have lost their patience with the current ownership but I'm not there yet. That's not to say that if KP sold us to another non Saudi billionaire tomorrow I would be inconsolable but I wouldn't expect things to suddenly become rosey either. Newcastle fans expected league titles, FA Cups and Champions League runs instantly and it doesn't work that way. Manchester United have gone backwards since their change. My gut instinct is that twisting is riskier than sticking right now but it is just that, a gut instinct. I guess it's just about how much time each individual wants to afford the current owners and that's down to individual opinion.

 

[Payne74]

If Maddison hadn't gifted Bournemouth 3 points with a winks v QPR style back pass and then fluffed a pen against Everton to take Leicester 3-1 ahead all of the above would be irrelevant.

Like Pop I'm not there yet at throwing eggs at Top but I also think we aren't far away from being a competitive premier league team again.

Top could sell and Leicester could have a new owner but I would argue the chances of them being more successful than KP is lower than KP turning it around.

There are more Vincent Tans and Glaziers than KP.

 

[Blue Maniac]

Glaziers

Glazers

 

[Payne74]

I'd want to see us adopting the approaches used by Brighton, Bournemouth & Brentford. Clever, astute use of resources whereby they don't have as much as the bigger clubs but they can see all the minimal gains they can make and use them.

All those clubs have won nothing, Brighton peaked when they qualified for Europe and have been slowly sliding down the table since, Bloom has a bulging bank account and that's about it, Brentford and Bournemouth are thankful of being in the premier league and that's it, I guarantee all 3 clubs will be in a relegation battle within a season or two, all the hype with **** all to show for it.

 

[Brown Nose]

Well, the phrase 'turn on Aiyawatt' wouldn't be something I'd be happy doing at any point.

You don't want to look back on a legacy if there's nothing to look forward to and I think exactly the same. However, for us to equal or supercede the successes we have had, we would need another billionaire owner and these are hard to come by unless you want to throw every single ounce of morality out of the window and accept the blood money of a Saudi conglomerate.

We shouldn't have been in the Championship last season, but we were and we won it because we had the financial resources and could afford clever lawyers under our current owners. It isn't KP's fault that Maresca ****ed off but it is their fault that they appointed a complete failure in his place. You're right in that we need much better leaders in the club but selling to another billionaire really doesn't guarantee this so I am trying to weigh up the good against the risk and at the moment, the good in that we are a PL side who have been able to invest in players (albeit that the idiot we gave this responsibility to made a complete hash of it), finance legal protection from the PL (from self inflicted problems I grant you) and who won the Championship at a canter last season because they could invest again, in players, is far more palatable than the risk of becoming QPR or a Saudi owned plaything.

Like you say, there's no right answer and I can absolutely understand why some folk may have lost their patience with the current ownership but I'm not there yet. That's not to say that if KP sold us to another non Saudi billionaire tomorrow I would be inconsolable but I wouldn't expect things to suddenly become rosey either. Newcastle fans expected league titles, FA Cups and Champions League runs instantly and it doesn't work that way. Manchester United have gone backwards since their change. My gut instinct is that twisting is riskier than sticking right now but it is just that, a gut instinct. I guess it's just about how much time each individual wants to afford the current owners and that's down to individual opinion.

Wow, it's almost as if you and I can have a reasoned and respectful debate!

I accept what you say but note that you haven't answered my question.

I posted a thread more than two years ago saying that I was convinced that the owner was out of his depth. Nothing since has made me reconsider. In the intervening time, I've just gone from being in a very small minority to a bigger minority. Hence my genuine interest in the question.

Despite the fact that LCFC used to be good and the person in charge is someone I have a genuine emotional attachment to, I think every day that passes sees us sliding backwards and only protest will address this.

If he is upset by that, tough luck pal. You shouldn't have made a mess of it.

 

[HFox]

I'd want to see us adopting the approaches used by Brighton, Bournemouth & Brentford. Clever, astute use of resources whereby they don't have as much as the bigger clubs but they can see all the minimal gains they can make and use them.

All those clubs have won nothing, Brighton peaked when they qualified for Europe and have been slowly sliding down the table since, Bloom has a bulging bank account and that's about it, Brentford and Bournemouth are thankful of being in the premier league and that's it, I guarantee all 3 clubs will be in a relegation battle within a season or two, all the hype with **** all to show for it.

You are playing to the trope and stereotype of big six fans and media.

Always disappoints me to see fellow fans outside of the big six bubble talk down in three clubs who are achieving incredible feats to their historical mean. They’ve won nothing, **** them, they aren’t good for anything. Their fans have plenty of memories. The need for silverware is a fallacy for armchair fans. I’m not demanding at City. I want consistent top flight football in front of 40k.

There is no reason why a club of LCFC’s stature shouldn’t be a PL regular. The ingredients are all there and they had the sprinkle of some silverware. It amazes me that a set of fans who are happy to put noses out of joint in 15/16 are now happy to say ‘well it’s our historical mean anyway’ so a relegation is okay

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

I think almost everyone on this forum and in our wider supporter base would prefer King Power to stay (rather than rolling the dice), whilst making the following changes:

• Replacing Rudkin as the DoF.
• Bringing in competent people to run all aspects of the club. That might mean Susan Whelan has to go too.
• Setting out a clear plan of where this club is going and when we might expect to get there (as Vichai did when they first bought the club).
• Having an open dialog with fans that respects that the club ultimately belongs to us.
• Scaling back some of the costly elements of the stadium expansion, but actually getting it done.

We know that getting back to being a top eight challenger is going to take some time as our squad isn't good enough by far, but Villa are a good example of a club that was in a similar position to us only a few years ago and are now fairly established in the top eight.

Except maybe the bit where Villa have a 96% wage to income ratio like......

 

[popillius]

Wow, it's almost as if you and I can have a reasoned and respectful debate!

I accept what you say but note that you haven't answered my question.

I posted a thread more than two years ago saying that I was convinced that the owner was out of his depth. Nothing since has made me reconsider. In the intervening time, I've just gone from being in a very small minority to a bigger minority. Hence my genuine interest in the question.

Despite the fact that LCFC used to be good and the person in charge is someone I have a genuine emotional attachment to, I think every day that passes sees us sliding backwards and only protest will address this.

If he is upset by that, tough luck pal. You shouldn't have made a mess of it.

My moment would be when I see a reasonably better option than KP being presented to move us forward or when I think KP are no longer invested in trying to move the club forward. I don't believe that either of those two things have been met.

I don't think we are sliding backwards, we are doing what a lot of clubs do; moving backwards and forwards, backwards and forwards. Promotion; nearly relegated; league winners; rubbish follow up season and change of manager; couple of decent 5th places; FA Cup; relegation; promotion; and the cycle starts again, hopefully with an escape. Football club success, like in any other sport really, is rarely linear. It's often two steps forwards one step back; it's disappointing of course but it isn't atypical.

Throughout all of this however, I have never once believed that Top has stopped caring about the club or has stopped trying to build it and make it stronger, even if that hasn't happened and even when he have made poor decisions. Arguably, this may be one of his biggest flaws, caring about it too much and not treating it like another business. The investment continues to flow however.

It's isn't about an emotional connection to Top or for any fear of upsetting him that I don't want to scream and holla abuse or demands of a change in ownership, it's simply because we could do so, so much worse far easier than we could do much better. I won't criticise people for protesting about the ownership because I totally understand it, I'm just not at a point where that sits right with me. It is true however, that such protests can often become personal and if that were to be happen it would, in my opinion at least, be unnecessary and disgusting.

 

[camberwell fox]

I couldn't boo the owners until it became clear that they were disinterested in LCFC, until that point is reached I am with Pop, where we are now is much more attractive than to 'twist' and more than likely end of with an asset stripper or a sports-wash Saudi owner.

 

[jb5000]

There are more Vincent Tans and Glaziers than KP.

You've compared apples to oranges there - Vincent Tan and the Glaziers are individuals, whereas KP is a company - who have had two leaders, Vichai and Top. Tan himself appeared to be incompetent and spent/lost a fortune, while the Glaziers have been all too competent but have sucked a fortune out of their club.

I think it's glaringly obvious that most of what was good about KP ownership for us came under Vichai, and most of what has been bad came under Top - therefore it would be more accurate to file Top with Tan.

At some point soon he either appoints someone competent to run the club for him, or there will come a point where the rest of the family force a sale (almost certainly when we are no longer an EPL club and have no likely route to getting back there, which quite possibly could be by Christmas at this rate)

 

[Payne74]

You've compared apples to oranges there - Vincent Tan and the Glaziers are individuals, whereas KP is a company - who have had two leaders, Vichai and Top. Tan himself appeared to be incompetent and spent/lost a fortune, while the Glaziers have been all too competent but have sucked a fortune out of their club.

I think it's glaringly obvious that most of what was good about KP ownership for us came under Vichai, and most of what has been bad came under Top - therefore it would be more accurate to file Top with Tan.

At some point soon he either appoints someone competent to run the club for him, or there will come a point where the rest of the family force a sale (almost certainly when we are no longer an EPL club and have no likely route to getting back there, which quite possibly could be by Christmas at this rate)

Not really, it doesn't matter how the club is owned, the Fans have no choice in who purchased the club, a rich individual, an Arab state, Hollywood film star, or an American investment fund the outcome is either good or bad, my point being there's more ownership that's ended badly than being successful.
If Top sold the chances are it would be to either an Arab state or an American hedge fund, neither would care about the club one would want a return on their investment the other to try and convince the world they are nice fellas.

As owners go KP have been successful, have put money in without return and nobody has been beheaded.

 

[popillius]

and have no likely route to getting back there, which quite possibly could be by Christmas at this rate)

But this is the problem. There is absolutely no evidence that this is a possibility. It's much more probable that if we were to go down, we would be one of the teams most likely to come back up.

 

[camberwell fox]

But this is the problem. There is absolutely no evidence that this is a possibility. It's much more probable that if we were to go down, we would be one of the teams most likely to come back up.

....As is always the case...and happens more often than not.

 

[Brown Nose]

....As is always the case...and happens more often than not.

Would you agree that every time we go down we get proportionately weaker compared to mid-range PL sides?

Even if relegation is followed by immediate promotion, it is hugely damaging.

 

[Payne74]

Would you agree that every time we go down we get proportionately weaker compared to mid-range PL sides?

Even if relegation is followed by immediate promotion, it is hugely damaging.

I don't think it's restricted to Leicester, look at last season all promoted teams relegated and it's looking likely again this season, the 3 teams that will get promoted this season will probably go down again. PSR rules have made it like this.
I do think had Fatawu and Ricardo been fit we would of been ok.

 

[Feidlimid]

PSR rules have made it like this.

Yep, that'd be my take too. It's making promoted teams play in plastic boots.

 

[Payne74]

Yep, that'd be my take too. It's making promoted teams play in plastic boots.

It guarantees the American owners the league they want with no relegation.

 

[popillius]

Would you agree that every time we go down we get proportionately weaker compared to mid-range PL sides?

Even if relegation is followed by immediate promotion, it is hugely damaging.

You're not taking onto account a few important things here though. Firstly, injuries to Fatawu, Ndidi, Hermansen, Winks and Ricardo have hampered us this season. Secondly, we had money to invest and make us stronger but we let a buffoon spend it on dross. Capacity was there to make us much better by adding to our squad where we needed to.

 

[jb5000]

You're not taking onto account a few important things here though. Firstly, injuries to Fatawu, Ndidi, Hermansen, Winks and Ricardo have hampered us this season. Secondly, we had money to invest and make us stronger but we let a buffoon spend it on dross. Capacity was there to make us much better by adding to our squad where we needed to.

And the key buffoon will most likely still be here in the close season. We were lucky last year to land the manager we did, but next season if we're in the championship we'll have a weaker squad and weaker coaching staff. Miss out on immediate promotion and PSR will have us stuffed

 

[Brown Nose]

You're not taking onto account a few important things here though. Firstly, injuries to Fatawu, Ndidi, Hermansen, Winks and Ricardo have hampered us this season. Secondly, we had money to invest and make us stronger but we let a buffoon spend it on dross. Capacity was there to make us much better by adding to our squad where we needed to.

Your convenient blaming of Cooper for everything that is wrong this season is only partially justifiable.

Under his watch we signed Fatawu for a lot of money - one of your key absentees. We also signed El Khannouss, Ayew and Buonanotte (on loan) who have all contributed a lot to our season.

Our shitty signings amount to who exactly? Skipp and Okoli look to be money badly spent. Edouard is a horrible loan deal. Golding was a PSR necessity. That leaves De Cordova Reid, and for free I'd say the jury is out on whether that's a good or bad deal. If he was given enough pitch time, I suspect he'd be an important player for us.

If you're going to add 9 players in a window, especially with the expectation of a points deduction looming, you can't expect a high success rate. We were fishing around in a shitty pool.

On the injuries front, I'd suggest that we've been no better or worse affected than most other sides.