Out of interest...

[drummindefender]

Please vote. I'm curious, everyone slags off Cameron for being fake etc but Mandelson makes me feel sick-hes everything that is wrong with modern politics!!!

 

[Blue Maniac]

Nobody on this planet is a bigger **** than Mandelson. Nobody.

 

[escos66]

Nobody on this planet is a bigger **** than Mandelson. Nobody.

 

[Boy Genius]

and the ****er is bent!

 

[drummindefender]

Seriously, even if David Cameron is a posh twat, the fact is Mandelson has been kicked out of Cabinet twice for being bent (no pun intended) YET is still arguably the most influtential figure in the Labour Party (so much so that everything he says is repeated by all the other Labour MPs within 10 minutes of him saying it!!!)

 

[drummindefender]

Also Clegg has come out and basically said he will speak to the Tories first seeing as they got the biggest share of the vote and seats-and fair play to him for sticking to his original statement. Nice to see a politician who doesn't flip fop and backtrack.

Like to see Slimey Mandys face now

 

[OldGit]

Also Clegg has come out and basically said he will speak to the Tories first seeing as they got the biggest share of the vote and seats-and fair play to him for sticking to his original statement. Nice to see a politician who doesn't flip fop and backtrack.

Like to see Slimey Mandys face now

Apart from having said first that he couldn't make a decision either way before he meets with his MPs on Saturday.....

 

[Cate Fox]

according to the rules, doesnt Brown get first dibs on setting up a majority government? He just needs to offer Clegg the right things and he will soon backtrack...

 

[drummindefender]

Apart from having said first that he couldn't make a decision either way before he meets with his MPs on Saturday.....

Minor point-i'd rather he back tracked on thath then when he said he would go with the party with the biggest share of the vote

and electoral reform is looking a serious possibility now. So I'm quite pleased as thats what influenced my vote more then anything else

 

[drummindefender]

according to the rules, doesnt Brown get first dibs on setting up a majority government? He just needs to offer Clegg the right things and he will soon backtrack...

Very true, and already looks like Labour are moving into position to do that.

However I'm confident he will stick to his guns. If he doesn't then I won't vote for Lib Dems again as long as he's leader, as he will have proven he's just like the rest of them.

 

[drummindefender]

someone summed it up perfectly on BBC earlier

Lib/Lab works in terms of policy but has no moral legitmacy
Lib/Con probs won't work in terms of policy, but will have moral legitimacy

 

[Hector]

someone summed it up perfectly on BBC earlier

Lib/Lab works in terms of policy but has no moral legitmacy
Lib/Con probs won't work in terms of policy, but will have moral legitimacy

Clegg knows this. Therefore he has to appear to try to make a deal with the tories first. When they fail to make any concessions on PR, he can sadly and reluctantly say the two perties remain too far apart on how to deal with the financial crisis....then he can legitimately turn to labour - although goodness knows how they will make up the numbers they are still short of a majority.

 

[drummindefender]

Clegg knows this. Therefore he has to appear to try to make a deal with the tories first. When they fail to make any concessions on PR, he can sadly and reluctantly say the two perties remain too far apart on how to deal with the financial crisis....then he can legitimately turn to labour - although goodness knows how they will make up the numbers they are still short of a majority.

Hmm it is looking this way. TBH if the Tories don't have the humilty to realise people don't want them as a majority gov't at the moment, and therefore they need to make concessions reflecting what the public actually wants, then **** em, they don't deserve to be in power.

Even if that git Brown stays in, if we get PR then I for one will be happy.

 

[Doggie_muz]

Hmm it is looking this way. TBH if the Tories don't have the humilty to realise people don't want them as a majority gov't at the moment, and therefore they need to make concessions reflecting what the public actually wants, then **** em, they don't deserve to be in power.

Even if that git Brown stays in, if we get PR then I for one will be happy.

What is your favoured system?

 

[The Old Fox]

someone summed it up perfectly on BBC earlier

Lib/Lab works in terms of policy but has no moral legitmacy
Lib/Con probs won't work in terms of policy, but will have moral legitimacy

You'll have to explain the first part of that to a simple mind such as mine. Were the Liberals and Labour to come to an agreement (ignoring minor difficulties such as still being short of an absolute majority), they would represent over 50% of the electorate. Assuming that both leaders feel that they are getting something that those voters wanted, where is the issue?

As a Labour supporter, I must, however, agree with Clegg when he says that the Conservatives should be approached before Labour.

 

[drummindefender]

What is your favoured system?

Anything but FPTP or the AV system being advocated by Labour which wouldn't make a lot of difference. The more proportional the better.

You'll have to explain the first part of that to a simple mind such as mine. Were the Liberals and Labour to come to an agreement (ignoring minor difficulties such as still being short of an absolute majority), they would represent over 50% of the electorate. Assuming that both leaders feel that they are getting something that those voters wanted, where is the issue?

As a Labour supporter, I must, however, agree with Clegg when he says that the Conservatives should be approached before Labour.

Did Labour and Lib Dem run as a combined party? No. So why view them as a combined force? The Conservatives and Lib Dems would also represent over 50% of the electorate, and more of the electorate then a Lib-Lab pact. How can the party who got the most votes not be in government? Its undemocratic to think anything else.

 

[drummindefender]

Cameron jus said he doesnt want to form a minority gov't-wants a coallition with Lib Dems.

Interesting

 

[bocadillo]

Even if that git Brown stays in, if we get PR then I for one will be happy.

The problem that I see though with PR is that it is likely to lead to more hung parliaments - and I don't think hung parliaments are good for anybody at all. They lead to weak, wishy-washy government.

 

[OldGit]

Anything but FPTP or the AV system being advocated by Labour which wouldn't make a lot of difference. The more proportional the better.



Did Labour and Lib Dem run as a combined party? No. So why view them as a combined force? The Conservatives and Lib Dems would also represent over 50% of the electorate, and more of the electorate then a Lib-Lab pact. How can the party who got the most votes not be in government? Its undemocratic to think anything else.

1. it's not a matter of a "combined force", but of having much more in common in their manifestos - not rushing in to immediate cuts, electoral reform etc etc. For a coalition to work, surely you want it to be constituted from those with as much common ground as possible?

2. Quite easily - if the party with most votes cannot find partners with enough common ground. That's not at all uncommon in countries where multi - party systems and indecisive results are the norm. What you suggest replaces the tyrany of the majority with the tyranny of the slightly larger minority.

 

[drummindefender]

1. it's not a matter of a "combined force", but of having much more in common in their manifestos - not rushing in to immediate cuts, electoral reform etc etc. For a coalition to work, surely you want it to be constituted from those with as much common ground as possible?

2. Quite easily - if the party with most votes cannot find partners with enough common ground. That's not at all uncommon in countries where multi - party systems and indecisive results are the norm. What you suggest replaces the tyrany of the majority with the tyranny of the slightly larger minority.

1. Yes the Liberal Democrats and Labour have more in common with one another-its something I acknowledged. But this doesn't get rid of the fact the Conservatives got more of the vote, and would have more of the seats regardless of what electoral system we have.

2. So instead of this "tyranry of the slightly larger minority" as you put it, you think were better off with a coalition based on two parties who have less of a claim to a mandate to govern? I'm sorry but i can't see the rationale there, and is hardly a more democratic solution. Whats the point of democracy if a large amount of peoples views aren't considered?