Ross Kemp in Afghanistan

[H T B]

He hasn't ever admitted responsibility, that is all just US propaganda.

There was a tape released around 2005 that purports to be Bin Laden admitting responsibility but it is obviously not him (only bears a passing resemblance to Bin Laden, person in the tape is wearing jewellery, writes with right hand when Bin Laden is left-handed etc etc) which does make you wonder who produced the tape & why?

Same makers of the film of Neil Armstrong on the moon?

 

[Macky]

Same makers of the film of Neil Armstrong on the moon?

Eh??

 

[Dunc]

some pretty irrefutable evidence linked from here and quoted as such.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_laden

In the 2004 Osama bin Laden video, bin Laden abandoned his denials without retracting past statements. In it he told he had personally directed the 19 hijackers.[7][60] In the 18-minute tape, played on Al-Jazeera, four days before the American presidential election, bin Laden accused U.S. President George W. Bush of negligence on the hijacking of the planes on September 11.[7]
According to the tapes, bin Laden claimed he was inspired to destroy the World Trade Center after watching the destruction of towers in Lebanon by Israel during the 1982 Lebanon War.[61]
In two other tapes aired by Al Jazeera in 2006, Osama bin Laden announces,

I am the one in charge of the 19 brothers … I was responsible for entrusting the 19 brothers … with the raids [5 minute audiotape broadcast May 23, 2006],[62]
​

and is seen with Ramzi Binalshibh, as well as two of the 9/11 hijackers, Hamza al-Ghamdi and Wail al-Shehri, as they make preparations for the attacks (videotape broadcast September 7, 2006).[63]
Despite this, bin Laden is reported to have complained as recently as November 2007 of the lack "of evidence admissible in court" tying him and his organization to the 9/11 attack.[64]

 

[Dunc]

I guess it boils down to what you want to believe to be fair, if you don't trust western media (although Al Jazeera showed the tapes) then you won't care what it says on there.

 

[Macky]

some pretty irrefutable evidence linked from here and quoted as such.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_laden

In the 2004 Osama bin Laden video, bin Laden abandoned his denials without retracting past statements. In it he told he had personally directed the 19 hijackers.[7][60] In the 18-minute tape, played on Al-Jazeera, four days before the American presidential election, bin Laden accused U.S. President George W. Bush of negligence on the hijacking of the planes on September 11.[7]
According to the tapes, bin Laden claimed he was inspired to destroy the World Trade Center after watching the destruction of towers in Lebanon by Israel during the 1982 Lebanon War.[61]
In two other tapes aired by Al Jazeera in 2006, Osama bin Laden announces,

I am the one in charge of the 19 brothers … I was responsible for entrusting the 19 brothers … with the raids [5 minute audiotape broadcast May 23, 2006],[62]
​

and is seen with Ramzi Binalshibh, as well as two of the 9/11 hijackers, Hamza al-Ghamdi and Wail al-Shehri, as they make preparations for the attacks (videotape broadcast September 7, 2006).[63]
Despite this, bin Laden is reported to have complained as recently as November 2007 of the lack "of evidence admissible in court" tying him and his organization to the 9/11 attack.[64]

What???

 

[highland fox]

Best place for him Afghanistan... twat.The way he treated Tiffany was horrible

 

[Melton Fox]

Best place for him Afghanistan... twat.The way he treated Tiffany was horrible

Aye, it Could've Been so Beautiful

 

[Dunc]

What???

evidence that Bin Laden has (since the invasion of Afghanistan) claimed responsibilty for 9/11

"In the 2004 Osama bin Laden video, bin Laden abandoned his denials without retracting past statements. In it he told he had personally directed the 19 hijackers.[7][60]"

"According to the tapes, bin Laden claimed he was inspired to destroy the World Trade Center after watching the destruction of towers in Lebanon by Israel during the 1982 Lebanon War.[61]
In two other tapes aired by Al Jazeera in 2006, Osama bin Laden announces,

I am the one in charge of the 19 brothers … I was responsible for entrusting the 19 brothers … with the raids [5 minute audiotape broadcast May 23, 2006],[62]"



​

 

[Macky]

evidence that Bin Laden has (since the invasion of Afghanistan) claimed responsibilty for 9/11

"In the 2004 Osama bin Laden video, bin Laden abandoned his denials without retracting past statements. In it he told he had personally directed the 19 hijackers.[7][60]"

"According to the tapes, bin Laden claimed he was inspired to destroy the World Trade Center after watching the destruction of towers in Lebanon by Israel during the 1982 Lebanon War.[61]
In two other tapes aired by Al Jazeera in 2006, Osama bin Laden announces,

I am the one in charge of the 19 brothers … I was responsible for entrusting the 19 brothers … with the raids [5 minute audiotape broadcast May 23, 2006],[62]"
​

​

But if it is Bin Laden, I haven't time to look at it properly right now but it looks like a Wikipedia article, it's still over three years after the invasion of Afghanistan.

 

[Matt_B]

Our invasion of Afganistan and Iraq is akin to the friend everyone has who insists on interfering in everyone elses business. We are only involved there because we chose to go over their to get involved.

 

[Macky]

Our invasion of Afganistan and Iraq is akin to the friend everyone has who insists on interfering in everyone elses business. We are only involved there because we chose to go over their to get involved.

But there was nothing to get involved in before the US & Britain invaded those countries.

They are more akin to the shit stirring troublemaking bully that nobody likes who always starts trouble then steals all the handbags while it's kicking off.

 

[Dunc]

[/indent]But if it is Bin Laden, I haven't time to look at it properly right now but it looks like a Wikipedia article, it's still over three years after the invasion of Afghanistan.

I never disputed that, I was just making the point that he has since admitted/claimed responsibility.

My personal opinion is that the USA had some justification for the attack on Afghanistan, the Taliban were known to be supporting Bin Laden and the training camps for Al Quaeda.

Whether Bin Laden accepted responsbility is a fair point, but he had already claimed the attacks on other US vessels/buildings and was clearly the figurehead of the then burgeoning Islamic fundamentalist terrorism.

Lets face it, the Taliban were actively assisting terrorism, allowing training camps and the terrorist network to flourish. Unfortunately for the 'allied forces' Afghanistan has historically proved to be a severely difficult (if not impossible) country to win.

However, we didn't have any reason to invade Iraq, other than to finish off daddy's war.

 

[Melton Fox]

Anybody believe the concpiracy theory that Bin Laden isn't actually real?

 

[homer]

Anybody believe the concpiracy theory that Bin Laden isn't actually real?

I didn't, but I do now you've mentioned it

 

[Melton Fox]

I didn't, but I do now you've mentioned it

Good.

I like intense debate and opinion exchanging, it's so challenging and rewarding for the brain :icon_razz

 

[Yorkshire Vixen]

Anybody watching this ?

Best thing I've seen on telly for some time

I think the series he did about hooliganism in Poland was really good as well.

i agree with both of you

 

[Lako42]

i agree with both of you

In that case i agree with the 3 of you.

 

[Chuck T Masala]

I am note sure where the profit really comes from invading Afghanistan (Iraq may be different) and the US had very few troops in Afghanistan initially, most of the fighting was done by the Northern Alliance and other warlords. Of course the US were on the ground advising and persuading and US airpower was widely used.

The pictures you see and the stories you hear anywhere else in the world can never ever equate with the reality of situation on the ground. Its never black and white, for everyone that complains about the coalition presence there are others who embrace it. To be frank most will pay homage and take succour from who ever is holding the gun. The values and beliefs we hold in the west have no place in their world, They have no need for them. They care little for anything that happens or exists outside of their immediate environment. I have witnessed the joy and jubilation on their faces as a clean water supply is provided or a school rebuilt or small hospital re-opened only to see the grim acceptance as they view the wreckage destroyed by insurgents (or freedom fighters depending on where you are from) two days later. They are fiercely tribal more so than on religious grounds, justice can be metered out based on where you are from rather than what you have done. Large Criminal elements support and contrubute to the insurgency simply to keep the situation unstable, stability and peace is not in their interests, but they have no political aims above that. The elected Government of these countries can never be representitive of the people because they do not divide themselves on political beliefs.

I don't judge them for this, its just how it is. As a people they are both open, hospitable and in general friendly, but also quite different, often difficult and will change with the wind. This is a glimps of the background in which the UK troops operate in both countries. Ross Kemp's programme shows some of the difficulties for the troops, but it only scratches the surface of their war in Afghanistan.

Personally, I fear that any hopes anyone has for democracy, or peace, as we know it in either Afghanistan or Iraq will remain just that - hope for some time to come. Everyone will have an opinion, because its thats just how it is, no right answers from anyone.

 

[Macky]

I am note sure where the profit really comes from invading Afghanistan.

The US have been trying to route a major gas pipeline across Afghanistan towards the Caspian sea for several years, negotiations with the Taliban had broken down, invasion was the next step.

Also, war & conflict is very, very profitable for logistics suppliers and especially so for those that award contracts to those suppliers.

 

[MKFox]

I've had plenty of soldiers enjoying my Kyber.

Christ on a bike Chuck, no need....