Pompey still in trouble

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RHYDAL

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8826344.stm

Portsmouth suffer fresh setback after HMRC appeal


_48375852_frattonpark_getty.jpg
Fratton Park will be hosting Championship football next season

Portsmouth have suffered a fresh blow after Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs lodged papers in an attempt to prevent the club coming out of administration. Last month, Pompey saw a Company Voluntary Agreement (CVA) approved that would allow them to repay unsecured creditors 20p in the pound.
However, HMRC claims the amount it is owed allows it to block the CVA.
It means that Pompey will remain in administration and under a transfer embargo until the appeal is heard.
And the club's administrator Andrew Andronikou, who had been anticipating HMRC's appeal, warned the case may not be heard until October or November.
That could severely hamper new manager Steve Cotterill's plans for the coming Championship campaign, though Andronikou noted the club would be able to sign players until their squad numbered at least 20 players.
Portsmouth currently have 18 players listed in their first-team squad.
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606: DEBATE

I remember being ridiculed on here around October last year for saying the Taxman was after Pompey and wanted to make an example of them. Although, believe it or not, gives me no pleasure in being right



ChocolateBoxKid

For a CVA to be agreed, it must win the support of those owed at least 75% of the unsecured debt. The vote on 17 June saw the agreement win 81.3% of the vote.
But HMRC argues that £13m of debt was left out of the original calculations; if the £13m figure is included, says the HMRC, it would then have more than the 25% of the debt it needs to block the CVA.
"We are acting in the interests of all those creditors who are not in the football industry. We don't think it's right that they are offered 20p in the pound against full repayment all others," an HMRC spokesman told BBC Sport.
"HMRC feel we have been or will be unfairly prejudiced by the decision to accept the CVA, because we believe there were material irregularities in the way in which the votes of creditors were counted at the creditor meeting and because, to our knowledge, the full amount of our claim should have been admitted for voting purposes.
"Also we cannot agree with the striking out of £13m of debt which seriously undermined our ability to challenge the CVA."
BBC Sport understands the club could start the Championship season without any further points penalties, having been deducted nine points by the Premier League last campaign.
But the transfer embargo will be a problem for the south-coast club who were relegated from the Premier League last season following a campaign of complete turmoil.
Speaking on Wednesday before the news of the appeal was confirmed, Andronikou described the situation as an "irritant".
"It's going to be an irritant and, to put it simply, the embargo will stay for a longer period," said the administrator.
"As long as there is an appeal process, the registration embargo will continue to be in force for the foreseeable future.
"However, we expect any appeal hearing to be held in October or November. Before then, if the squad is below 20, we can still bring in players, regardless of the embargo. That is allowed and is something we are looking at."





What is the deal if they are still in admin at the kick off? 10 points off? Could be one rival out of the running from the get go.
 
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What is the deal if they are still in admin at the kick off? 10 points off? Could be one rival out of the running from the get go.

Don't think they can be punished twice for the same thing - can be docked multiple points if they come out of admin without a CVA, though, or other general breaches of insolvency rules
 
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Don't think they can be punished twice for the same thing - can be docked multiple points if they come out of admin without a CVA, though, or other general breaches of insolvency rules
After a quick search I found this......

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/23/portsmouth-administration-points-deduction

Portsmouth will almost certainly become the first Premier League club to enter administration on Friday in a move that would effectively condemn them to relegation. It could also result in the club starting next season in the Championship with a further reduction of up to 20 points.
Entering administration will result in an automatic nine-point penalty from the Premier League, leaving Portsmouth 17 points adrift of safety. But the punishment from the Football League next �*season is likely to be far harsher.
Portsmouth would only avoid a �*further points deduction from the Football League if the administrator can reach a company voluntary arrangement, a deal with creditors to accept only a proportion of the club's debts.
That will be extremely hard to achieve, however, because league rules state that football creditors must be paid in full and Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs will insist on the same. Portsmouth must find at least £22m to settle with them alone. Some £10m is outstanding in unpaid transfer fees, including for their former midfielder Sulley Muntari, signed from Udinese and now with Internazionale, and at least £12.1m is owed to HMRC.
There have been four previous cases of Football League clubs failing to reach CVAs, involving Leeds United, �*Rotherham, Bournemouth and Luton Town, and they were handed penalties of 15, 17, 17 and 20 points respectively.
That raises the prospect of Portsmouth suffering consecutive relegations and dropping into League One. But administration has emerged as the most attractive option for Portsmouth because it would lead to the suspension of the winding-up petition served by HMRC, which is due to be heard in the high court on Monday, and ensure the club can continue. Portsmouth confirmed in a statement that administration is highly likely.

Thought I'd read that further punishment could follow.
 
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They had a guy on Talksport this morning who they have on a lot regarding Pompey's issues. He said he'd spoken to the football league about it and they weren't able to say whether they could penalise them again or not. He also said he thought they were in a lot more danger than many of their fans appreciated.
 
they docked Leeds twice..slightly different i know, but it's not impossible
 
Weren't the two lots of docked points for Leeds for entirely different reasons though
Similar situation.....admin followed by failed CVA. 15 points too. Looks like Pompey will have till October hearing to sort things out.
 
TBH who really cares?

When we were in that situation a lot of Pompey fans came onto our boards wishing us the worst! Well now the shoe is on the other foot.

On another level I don't really agree with points deduction.
 
Similar situation.....admin followed by failed CVA. 15 points too. Looks like Pompey will have till October hearing to sort things out.

Cheers Rhydal, I forget we have people on this site with a fair bit of knowledge on football clubs in financial strife :icon_wink

(I realise we've had our issues too ;-) )
 
TBH who really cares?

I care, 'cos another points deduction effectively rules them out as competition

It's comforting to have at least one team guaranteed to be below you at the end of the season. It's a good starting point
 
Cheers Rhydal, I forget we have people on this site with a fair bit of knowledge on football clubs in financial strife :icon_wink

(I realise we've had our issues too ;-) )
And we're not out of the woods yet.
 
I care, 'cos another points deduction effectively rules them out as competition

It's comforting to have at least one team guaranteed to be below you at the end of the season. It's a good starting point

How do you work that one out?

A points deduction and a guarantee to finish below Leicester?
 
Looks like it may all be decided before the start of the season.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8839169.stm

Court agrees to bring forward HMRC Portsmouth appeal


_48375852_frattonpark_getty.jpg
Many employees at Fratton Park have left the club to cut costs

Portsmouth should have their fate decided before the start of the season after a court agreed to speed up HM's Revenue and Customs' appeal process. HMRC lodged papers on Monday in an attempt to prevent the club coming out of administration.
Pompey chief executive David Lampitt told BBC Radio Solent: "We've been in court to seek an expedited process.
"I understand the court has agreed to that, which means we should have the hearing before the season's start."
Lampitt continued: "I'm yet to hear about the date for that hearing, but we should know within the next 24 hours."

The ruling comes after Pompey saw a Company Voluntary Agreement (CVA) approved last month which would mean unsecured creditors would be repaid 20p in the pound, but HMRC appealed against the decision.
They claimed that the amount of money that they are owed is sufficient to allow them to block the CVA, and thwart the club's attempts to escape administration.
Andrew Andronikou, the club's administrator, said he had expected HMRC to appeal against the decision and had feared that the case may not have been heard until October or November.
That would have meant the club would have remained under a transfer embargo for the first two months of the season.

But this latest ruling should now ensure that the club will hear its fate before the start of the Championship season on 7 August.
"We have been trying to get the appeal process heard as quickly as possible," continued Lampitt.
"Obviously we believe that it's firmly in everyone's interests for that to happen, but in particular for the future of the club."
For a CVA to be agreed, it must win the support of those owed at least 75% of the unsecured debt. The vote on 17 June saw the agreement win 81.3% of the vote.
But HMRC argues that £13m of debt was left out of the original calculations; if the £13m figure is included, says the HMRC, it would then have more than the 25% of the debt it needs to block the CVA.
 
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Well one team have beaten off the taxman for now thanks to Sainsburys- Southend's problems are not as acute as Portsmouth's or Cardiff's. Hopefully they will see a turnaround in fortunes now

Why? They have been mis-managed, none of this is anything more than they deserve. If they work their way out of it fair enough, but they don't deserve any luck.
 
So when City were in the deep shit and we could have gone down the pan you were happy for fans of other Clubs to say "you lot deserved it" "you overreached yourselves" "you should be kicked out" etc. I know I found it very difficult especially as when one of those shouting his mouth off was manager of one of my local Clubs
 
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So when City were in the deep shit and we could have gone down the pan you were happy for fans of other Clubs to say "you lot deserved it" "you overreached yourselves" "you should be kicked out" etc. I know I found it very difficult especially as when one of those shouting his mouth off was manager of one of my local Clubs

I'm not saying their fans won't find it difficult, but the point is still true.
 
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