Racist Chanting

[ChrisFilter]

I didn't say it was just you did i?

No, but from the things you listed I got the sense that you were including me in your collection of 'right idiots'.

 

[spionfox]

There's also been study after study that says that global warming isn't a problem but I think most of us would accept that it is.

Jeez, don't start on weather (geddit?!) global warming is an 'issue' or not. That's a whole new debate for another thread.

Now then, multiculturalism versus integration. Who's going first?!

 

[spionfox]

Need to get back to my John Stuart Mill essay now, may bring some of the interesting thoughts mentioned here into that.

I hope one of which is the fact that of his own free will he drank half a bottle of shandy and was particularly ill.

 

[Matt_B]

No, but from the things you listed I got the sense that you were including me in your collection of 'right idiots'.

Some of your statements were as sweeping as those in opposition.

 

[ChrisFilter]

Some of your statements were as sweeping as those in opposition.

I'll have a read back. Apologies, if so. It doesn't do the 'cause' any favours.

 

[Cate Fox]

I wasn't trying to make light of your point, I'm sorry to hear that you have been made the subject of racist abuse for most of your life. The great thing about this forum, (and indeed at football matches), is that nowadays people are willing to confront the two of the three worst forms of abuse - racism and sexism. Hopefully, we will start to take homophobia seriously soon...probably the next generation? Hopefully sooner!

Anyone with any sense takes it seriously now I would hope.

 

[ChrisFilter]

Anyone with any sense takes it seriously now I would hope.

Yeah. But there are still huge swathes of idiots out there, and plenty seem to congregate at football matches.

 

[Brown Nose]

Now then, multiculturalism versus integration. Who's going first?!

As soon as long distance travel became easy, it became inevitable that all of us would end up as 'mongrels' within a few hundred years. We're still in the early stages of this but it will happen because we're human. Then all this nonsense about race will be rightly considered absurd, in much the same way as today we scratch our heads at things like witch-finding. You can add many other things to the list of outdated nonsense from theocratic religion to the royal family. All will inevitably eventually perish.

Picking on the weak or the different is sadly, but necessarily, human too and this is demonstrated at football grounds. Sometimes this is amusing, even to those being picked on. Sometimes it is cruel and sick. Mostly it is somewhere in between.

All we're really trying to do by confronting cruel and sick behaviour such as racism is to guide ourselves towards a more enlightened future and away from the mistakes of the past. Smacking children also neatly fits into this. Any parent that resorts to it is giving into weakness and/or proving their failings as a parent. It is easy to teach any child right from wrong without inflicting corporal punishment. Just watch Supernanny if you don't agree.

 

[Lincs Fox]

So are Forest fans racist bastards or not?

I need to know because there's a chap down my road with a Forest mini kit in his car window and may need to organise the lynch mob.

 

[David Gwilliam]

A few brief points:
(1) I had originally assumed that the Forest chant was aimed at our Thai ownership and not at our multicultural city.
(2) Nottingham also is a multicultural city.
(3) English is not a race - English is a nationality. Groups like the English Defence League pervert the word. When Brian Deane played for his country he was just as English as when Gary Lineker did.
(4) As this is a football forum it should be pointed out that football has got it right. Your nationality is the country you could play for - and for some people that is more than one country.
(5) Anyone born in England is English - though they may have other identities as well. However, people can be born elsewhere and still be English. I cannot resist pointing out that Leicester's own great Englishman Simon De Montfort was born in France. He arguably spoke for England like no other patriotic Englishman of his age. It would be a foolish person who told Amir Khan (born in Bolton) or Dame Kelly Holmes (born in Kent) that their race stopped them being English.
(6) At the two away matches I have been to this season - Coventry and the league match against Forest - I noticed that many Leicester fans had no interest in what was happening on the pitch except when the score could be used to taunt the other supporters. We are told that there were chants about Brian Clough being dead and that innocent motorists had their car windows spat on. Perhaps we should be more concerned about our own problem supporters than those of other clubs.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

(5) Anyone born in England is English

I'm not really sure about this one, David. If someone here grew up in England with English parents and spent their whole lives living in England, but were born when their parents lived in say, Sweden, (just as an example) for a very brief period and they'd spent only the first month of their life in Sweden. I can understand if that person classed themselves as English and didn't class themselves as being Swedish.

Depends whether you view nationality as something with set rules or what someone defines themselves as I guess.

 

[Matt_B]

A few brief points:
(1) I had originally assumed that the Forest chant was aimed at our Thai ownership and not at our multicultural city.
(2) Nottingham also is a multicultural city.
(3) English is not a race - English is a nationality. Groups like the English Defence League pervert the word. When Brian Deane played for his country he was just as English as when Gary Lineker did.
(4) As this is a football forum it should be pointed out that football has got it right. Your nationality is the country you could play for - and for some people that is more than one country.
(5) Anyone born in England is English - though they may have other identities as well. However, people can be born elsewhere and still be English. I cannot resist pointing out that Leicester's own great Englishman Simon De Montfort was born in France. He arguably spoke for England like no other patriotic Englishman of his age. It would be a foolish person who told Amir Khan (born in Bolton) or Dame Kelly Holmes (born in Kent) that their race stopped them being English.
(6) At the two away matches I have been to this season - Coventry and the league match against Forest - I noticed that many Leicester fans had no interest in what was happening on the pitch except when the score could be used to taunt the other supporters. We are told that there were chants about Brian Clough being dead and that innocent motorists had their car windows spat on. Perhaps we should be more concerned about our own problem supporters than those of other clubs.

I'm glad I read that to the end, a good post. I did originally wonder if our fans would have made such a deal out of this had it not been a rival set of fans (though of course I think they should have and did rightly so in this case). Unfortunately, I don't think they would have, else they would have when our own fans were racist and homophobic.

 

[Matt_B]

I'm not really sure about this one, David. If someone here grew up in England with English parents and spent their whole lives living in England, but were born when their parents lived in say, Sweden, (just as an example) for a very brief period and they'd spent only the first month of their life in Sweden. I can understand if that person classed themselves as English and didn't class themselves as being Swedish.

Depends whether you view nationality as something with set rules or what someone defines themselves as I guess.

Or even whether it should be considered important at all. Defining ourselves by arbitrary lines in the sand is as ridiculous as doing so on the colour of our skin or the size of our feet, to me.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

I'm glad I read that to the end, a good post. I did originally wonder if our fans would have made such a deal out of this had it not been a rival set of fans (though of course I think they should have and did rightly so in this case). Unfortunately, I don't think they would have, else they would have when our own fans were racist and homophobic.

I agree and said the same thing earlier about our fans doing something similar. Unfortunately, some people have come across as trivialising serious issues get clouded and made it look like silly one upmanship against a rival team where it shouldn't be. I'm glad they're bringing the issues to attention, but like you I'm wondering if it wasn't against Forest whether they'd do this and even moreso whether it was our own fans.

Like I said earlier, after the Brighton game there was a thread on FoxesTalk where nearly all of the users on their laughed off chants like "you're just a town full of faggots" as "harmless banter" yet plenty of exactly the same people are posting on there now and going red in the face over Forest fans signing "town full of Pakis" to us, which is sad to see, not because they are going red in the face, but because of the hypocrisy of it. These issues should be brought up, but some of our fans have just make it look like their picking and chosing for petty one upmanship over a rival team, rather than wanting to tackle a genuine issue, regardless of who it is doing it, which is what they should be doing.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

Or even whether it should be considered important at all. Defining ourselves by arbitrary lines in the sand is as ridiculous as doing so on the colour of our skin or the size of our feet, to me.

In an ideal world where prejudice against groups of people doesn't exist, you are right, however we don't live in that ideal world and it is important for often prejudiced against minority groups to define themselves as such and stand up against that.

 

[Matt_B]

I agree and said the same thing earlier about our fans doing something similar. Unfortunately, some people have come across as trivialising serious issues get clouded and made it look like silly one upmanship against a rival team where it shouldn't be. I'm glad they're bringing the issues to attention, but like you I'm wondering if it wasn't against Forest whether they'd do this and even moreso whether it was our own fans.

Like I said earlier, after the Brighton game there was a thread on FoxesTalk where nearly all of the users on their laughed off chants like "you're just a town full of faggots" as "harmless banter" yet plenty of exactly the same people are posting on there now and going red in the face over Forest fans signing "town full of Pakis" to us, which is sad to see, not because they are going red in the face, but because of the hypocrisy of it. These issues should be brought up, but some of our fans have just make it look like their picking and chosing for petty one upmanship over a rival team, rather than wanting to tackle a genuine issue, regardless of who it is doing it, which is what they should be doing.

Foxestalk users pretty much fall into the category of people that I would expect to act like that, so I'm not surprised.

 

[Matt_B]

In an ideal world where prejudice against groups of people doesn't exist, you are right, however we don't live in that ideal world and it is important for often prejudiced against minority groups to define themselves as such and stand up against that.

Definitely. My post was meant to come across as saying it's a shame and ridiculous that it is considered important.

 

[Mawsley]

How does it smell?

Cowes

 

[BlueBlood]

If you think that racism, sexism and homophobia are the three worst forms of abuse, then you really are mentally challenged.

I am sure there are other forms of abuse from fans during a football match, but if you so mentally stimulating, get your fat-ass off the fence and mention any that I may have missed out on, instead of making stupid one -liners!

 

[BlueBlood]

If I don't like a programme on telly, I don't keep watching it.
If this forum makes you feel a little jumpy, then you know what to do!

This numpty's only contribution to the debate "If this forum makes you feel jumpy, then you know what to do!"

What an ignoramus!

What would he say to the fans in the away end at City Ground? "If you are offended by the racist chants, leave the ground!"???