Fao Foxes Trust

[Foxes_Trust]

Leicester are run as a commercial organisation, and I would regard such information as confidential, plus Macclesfield may not want this information publicised. You are a customer of the club, does that allow you to ask for financial figures whenever you want? When I bought my Sunday papers today I didn't feel I had the right to ask my newagent what money he made last week. Unlike my newsagent, however, the club's annual accounts are available for whoever wants to see them.

Totally agree.

The question is based as though all costs for the club are match related, they aren't. Other than matchday only staff, a high proportion of costs are incurred on a weekly basis for the playing squad & admin staff.

We get a monthly report (as do all shareholders) of how the club is performing financially, but while perhaps gving a flavour of things, we would not post that information pubically, it could be damaging to the club.

Surely you realise that other clubs could have a look around other clubs fans message boards if they intend to bid for or sell a player & then can put a low bid if they feel a club is desparate for cash.

 

[Boy Genius]

Totally agree.

The question is based as though all costs for the club are match related, they aren't. Other than matchday only staff, a high proportion of costs are incurred on a weekly basis for the playing squad & admin staff.

We get a monthly report (as do all shareholders) of how the club is performing financially, but while perhaps gving a flavour of things, we would not post that information pubically, it could be damaging to the club.

Surely you realise that other clubs could have a look around other clubs fans message boards if they intend to bid for or sell a player & then can put a low bid if they feel a club is desparate for cash.

I would have thought other clubs would know which clubs are desparate and in the shit without having to go onto forums where most of the stuff posted is complete bullshit and people grasping at a comment they heard in a pub etc etc.

No my point is we made a profit at the Macclesfield game with only just over 6000 fans turning up, and with floodlights on, so whats all this bollux about we are moving further away from budget when the attendances have dropped to 19,000. This you lot stated on another thread. I dont know how many ST holders we have but I would think something around 15K, so I would have thought the club would have made the budget based on ST numbers as you can only guess on who else will turn up as a few bad results and these fans may not turn up.

I also realise what you are saying in your first sentence, everything is based over a period of time ie a month, but at my work I know on every project we undertake if we make a profit on it or not, so the club must know on a match to match basis too. They would be stupid if they didnt.


There again I could be wrong..............

 

[Real Sharapova]

I would have thought other clubs would know which clubs are desparate and in the shit without having to go onto forums where most of the stuff posted is complete bullshit and people grasping at a comment they heard in a pub etc etc.

No my point is we made a profit at the Macclesfield game with only just over 6000 fans turning up, and with floodlights on, so whats all this bollux about we are moving further away from budget when the attendances have dropped to 19,000. This you lot stated on another thread. I dont know how many ST holders we have but I would think something around 15K, so I would have thought the club would have made the budget based on ST numbers as you can only guess on who else will turn up as a few bad results and these fans may not turn up.

I also realise what you are saying in your first sentence, everything is based over a period of time ie a month, but at my work I know on every project we undertake if we make a profit on it or not, so the club must know on a match to match basis too. They would be stupid if they didnt.


There again I could be wrong..............

 

[Real Sharapova]

But why should our club reveal to everyone how financialy how we are doing on a week to week basis? That would reveal so much to a team who we were going to sell/buy a player, let alone who we buy the pies for for a home game. Tell me another club that releases such information, and I might treat you seriously.

 

[Jeff]

No my point is we made a profit at the Macclesfield game with only just over 6000 fans turning up

Did we?

I know on every project we undertake if we make a profit on it or not, so the club must know on a match to match basis too. They would be stupid if they didnt.

Depends what costs you attribute to the match.

They may well have made a profit on the match if you just count the direct costs involved - paying temporary staff on the evening, stewards, turnstile operators etc, plus the cost of floodlighting etc.


But if we include all the indirect costs - paying players and staff wages, paying for the stadium lease, taxes etc the situation would be very different.

These costs would have to be paid anyway, so they wouldn't affect the profits for that one match. But you can't 'not count' all these costs throughout the season, they still have to be paid.
If the wage budget is £3 million, for example, and they've budgeted on 48 matches in the season, then each match is costing us £62,500 in wages alone - and we didn't take anywhere near that much for the Macclesfield game, so there's no way that match could have made a profit.

 

[Hazzman]

Did we?




Depends what costs you attribute to the match.

They may well have made a profit on the match if you just count the direct costs involved - paying temporary staff on the evening, stewards, turnstile operators etc, plus the cost of floodlighting etc.


But if we include all the indirect costs - paying players and staff wages, paying for the stadium lease, taxes etc the situation would be very different.

These costs would have to be paid anyway, so they wouldn't affect the profits for that one match. But you can't 'not count' all these costs throughout the season, they still have to be paid.
If the wage budget is £3 million, for example, and they've budgeted on 48 matches in the season, then each match is costing us £62,500 in wages alone - and we didn't take anywhere near that much for the Macclesfield game, so there's no way that match could have made a profit.

Good thinking, Jeff. I do think City will pleased generally at the outcome of the crowd as it said the OS it was the second best attended in the round (I roughly predict that discounted tickets were also happening elsewhere). I thinking City were dreading the cost but thankful it wasnt that bad as they planned and City didnt lose as much money as fellow rivals in the Championship.

 

[Foxes_Trust]

No my point is we made a profit at the Macclesfield game with only just over 6000 fans turning up, and with floodlights on, so whats all this bollux about we are moving further away from budget when the attendances have dropped to 19,000. This you lot stated on another thread. I dont know how many ST holders we have but I would think something around 15K, so I would have thought the club would have made the budget based on ST numbers as you can only guess on who else will turn up as a few bad results and these fans may not turn up.

There again I could be wrong..............

The budget is set based around May time, and what money is made available to the manager is part of this.

The budget does not just include ST's & no match day sales, if that had been the case, we would have signed no players & maybe had to sell some too.

A budgeted attendance figure per game is set based on the opposition & the timing of the game (midweek, or say a Christmas fixture). Therefore it is certainly not 'bollux' as you put it, that an attendance of 19K moves us further away from the budget (we have seen the match attendance budget & it is true)

Another couple of things missing from this Macclesfield profit or not issue is:

a) The club only opened the West Stand for home fans, therefore matchday costs were significantly reduced

b) We had one of the highest attendances in the Country for the last round of the competition, so many clubs were far worse off than we were, at least we nearly filled the one open stand (erm except Hazzman posted the point while I typed this originally)

 

[Real Sharapova]

Leicester are run as a commercial organisation, and I would regard such information as confidential, plus Macclesfield may not want this information publicised. You are a customer of the club, does that allow you to ask for financial figures whenever you want? When I bought my Sunday papers today I didn't feel I had the right to ask my newagent what money he made last week. Unlike my newsagent, however, the club's annual accounts are available for whoever wants to see them.

BG, not having a go at you, but you have not answered my point - why should the club release such information about one home game, and if they did, what figure would you like, especially as many costs are disregarded for the split of cup games revenue. As far as I remember from dealing with the affairs of local football clubs, the matchday revenue is then reduced by stewarding and police costs, and then divided between the clubs with a certain proportion going to the FA/League. As a boring beancounter myself, it would be virtually impossible to say how much you made/lost on a particular game, because you would have to try to allocate costs relating to the stadium, players wages, admin wages, etc. It can be done, ish, but would involve spending money that I think most supporters would prefer spent on the Acadamy/team

 

[Boy Genius]

Did we?




Depends what costs you attribute to the match.

They may well have made a profit on the match if you just count the direct costs involved - paying temporary staff on the evening, stewards, turnstile operators etc, plus the cost of floodlighting etc.


But if we include all the indirect costs - paying players and staff wages, paying for the stadium lease, taxes etc the situation would be very different.

These costs would have to be paid anyway, so they wouldn't affect the profits for that one match. But you can't 'not count' all these costs throughout the season, they still have to be paid.
If the wage budget is £3 million, for example, and they've budgeted on 48 matches in the season, then each match is costing us £62,500 in wages alone - and we didn't take anywhere near that much for the Macclesfield game, so there's no way that match could have made a profit.

These costs will already be covered in the original budget, and the players will be on salary and not payed on a match by match basis, as would most of the staff.
What I am trying to establish if the FT know the exact break even attendance figure, and judging from the response I dont think they do. I used Macclesfield match as an extreme example.
I have just noticed that the FT say the ST do not feature in the budget...

 

[Boy Genius]

The budget is set based around May time, and what money is made available to the manager is part of this.

The budget does not just include ST's & no match day sales, if that had been the case, we would have signed no players & maybe had to sell some too.

fecking hell, where do we get the main money from then?

If we have say 15,000 ST holders at an average of £350, that over £5M extra we should have then that is not budgeted for

 

[OldGit]

Think you misread it BG - the bit you quote says "does not JUST include STs.." ie it includes STs & some addition for casual sales.

 

[bocadillo]

The budget is set based around May time, and what money is made available to the manager is part of this.

The budget does not just include ST's & no match day sales, if that had been the case, we would have signed no players & maybe had to sell some too.

A budgeted attendance figure per game is set based on the opposition & the timing of the game (midweek, or say a Christmas fixture).

How can you budget attendance figures for individual games as early as May when the fixture list doesn't come out until the end of June?

Do you make it up as you go along?

 

[Dunc]

How can you budget attendance figures for individual games as early as May when the fixture list doesn't come out until the end of June?

Do you make it up as you go along?

I think it reads as two seperate items, an overall budget to work with to allow the club to purchase and plan, and then a budget for individual games worked out on the opposition/date/time when the fixtures are confirmed.

 

[Foxes_Trust]

I think it reads as two seperate items, an overall budget to work with to allow the club to purchase and plan, and then a budget for individual games worked out on the opposition/date/time when the fixtures are confirmed.

To do the budget you have to work out potential attendances, so the original budget is set prior to the fixture list. There would be swings & roundabouts & then any obvious major differences could be re-budgeted afterwards.

We viewed the budgeted attendances prior to the fixture list being released.

 

[newtonfox]

are they matching or going one way or the other i understand if you dont know

 

[Foxes_Trust]

are they matching or going one way or the other i understand if you dont know

As the club has stated, match attendances have been well below so far.

We need a good run of form & hopefully "the more attractive" fixtures will exceed budget

 

[Chrysalis]

so the boards plan is to hope form will make an upturn in attendances they have no other plan?

 

[Dickovforengland!]

so the boards plan is to hope form will make an upturn in attendances they have no other plan?

What else can they or should they do?

They have to put a budget together based on unknown attendances. In doing so they have to balance optimistic performances to justify transfer kitty against lower attendances and therefore less kitty and lower quality players which probably leads to poor performances and attendances.

Its a fine line, if we are doing sh1t on the pitch what can the board do and what can a fan reasonably expect them to do?

 

[Naughty Fox]

so the boards plan is to hope form will make an upturn in attendances they have no other plan?

I'd have thought the other plan was obvious, tout around that one or two players are for sale.

 

[step]

Dont forget that to earn the larger amounts from the competion, we need to play in the eliminators. dont concider each match indervidually, concider the earning from the cup as a total. and if you average out how much we earn every year from entering the cup, I am sure you would find that it is worth our while.
Also
Any money earned will help to offset the costs that are there, whether we play or not i.e. rates, mortgage, salaries
So