More religion bashing

[Blue Maniac]

Blue Maniac, I believe you are a raving lunatic

Hey Macky, he's been reading my blog! :icon_bigg

 

[FIF]

Yer, wot he said

Especially this bit:

So many things are harmful to life - we'd better get rid of all of them hadn't we?

I have known many Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Christians any others who base their lives on their religious beliefs and are a benefit to society. I know of many atheists who are very dangerous. Making religion your decision making basis (as an atheist) is no less stupid and dangerous than those extremists that most of us would agree are wrong.

 

[FIF]

Should we get rid of politics, cos that is even more of a cause of extremeist action than religion. I guess free thinking is pretty dangerous too.

 

[The Major]

I think this is very unfair.

If you look through history and through the present day world you'll find a lot of people who believe in a God. For many people it has helped them get through lives, for many it has improved the way that they treat others.

We live in a time and a society that thinks it knows so much but really knows so little.

We treat other humans, animals and the planet in general like shit and we are so short sighted, wrapped up in our own little egos that we don't think of future generations either.

I am certainly not advocating any religion in particular or even religion in general but it makes me grimace when I hear the religion knockers who are unwilling to accept other people's points of view and beliefs.

whether they are wrong or not is besides the point. I could understand if your feelings were more specific aimed at some of the (many) "religious" people who have caused suffering but they are not. They are aimed at everybody who believes in a God. they may be blinkered , do you think you're not?

That's what I think. It strikes me that the atheists on here (I class myself as agnostic) are the biggest fanatics.

 

[Blue Maniac]

So many things are harmful to life - we'd better get rid of all of them hadn't we?

I have known many Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Christians any others who base their lives on their religious beliefs and are a benefit to society. I know of many atheists who are very dangerous. Making religion your decision making basis (as an atheist) is no less stupid and dangerous than those extremists that most of us would agree are wrong.

You're missing the point on atheism. It's not a religion, by its very definition it's not a religion. Atheists tend to make decisions based on reason, whereas people who do things as a result of religious teaching are doing them based on the exact opposite.

Would you advocate discarding reason?

Of course there are dangerous atheists, but that doesn't mean the alternative is preferable or even desirable. I'd suggest that dangerous atheists would be more dangerous if they had the 'justification' of religion on their side.

 

[Blue Maniac]

That's what I think. It strikes me that the atheists on here (I class myself as agnostic) are the biggest fanatics.

There's no such thing as atheist fanaticism. There is such a thing as frustration at the seemingly endless number of people who think it's perfectly normal to believe things apparently at random.

I'm sure you can see the difference.

 

[The Major]

There's no such thing as atheist fanaticism.

.

That's not how it looks from here.

 

[Blue Maniac]

Should we get rid of politics, cos that is even more of a cause of extremeist action than religion. I guess free thinking is pretty dangerous too.

The two most ludicrous things you've probably ever said. This is disappointing because at other times I find you entertaining and even funny.

Show me one instance where politics (with religion absent or not in effect) has resluted in more extreme evil than, say, the Twin Towers attacks, the Rwandan genocide or the Holocaust (and don't say Hitler was an atheist; he wasn't).

The free thought comment was absurd, and I think you know it was. Free thought should be encouraged, always, but that is exactly what religion discourages. When your 'free thought' lets you believe (and preach) irrational nonsense and outright lies, it should be curtailed. Don't you think?

 

[The Major]

The two most ludicrous things you've probably ever said. This is disappointing because at other times I find you entertaining and even funny.

Show me one instance where politics (with religion absent or not in effect) has resluted in more extreme evil than, say, the Twin Towers attacks, the Rwandan genocide or the Holocaust (and don't say Hitler was an atheist; he wasn't).

The free thought comment was absurd, and I think you know it was. Free thought should be encouraged, always, but that is exactly what religion discourages. When your 'free thought' lets you believe (and preach) irrational nonsense and outright lies, it should be curtailed. Don't you think?

Stalin was.

 

[Blue Maniac]

Stalin was.

Correct, yes he was. Name another :icon_bigg

I don't think Bertrand Russell, Richard Dawkins or Ibn Warraq ever killed anyone.

Darwin was mental though.

 

[The Major]

Correct, yes he was. Name another :icon_bigg



Darwin was mental though.

Pol Pot, Mao Se Tung (spellings)

PS Darwin wasn't an atheist.

 

[FIF]

You're missing the point on atheism. It's not a religion, by its very definition it's not a religion. Atheists tend to make decisions based on reason,

I think you are deluding yourself. Many "atheists" are really "anti-religionists"

Atheists make their decisions based on their own biases

what do you think reason is? I think it's supposed to be the ability of the mind to think, understand and form opinions - it doesn't make those opinions right. Religious people use reason.

 

[Blue Maniac]

Pol Pot, Mao Se Tung (spellings)

PS Darwin wasn't an atheist.

I notice you keep picking mid-20th century Communist dictators. Wasn't Communism just a euphemism for enforced worship? Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot all played the genocidal, vengeful, authoritarian god pretty well don't you think? It wasn't an alternative to religion, is was just an alternative religion.

PS No, but he was right.

 

[FIF]

The two most ludicrous things you've probably ever said. This is disappointing because at other times I find you entertaining and even funny.

Show me one instance where politics (with religion absent or not in effect) has resluted in more extreme evil than, say, the Twin Towers attacks, the Rwandan genocide or the Holocaust (and don't say Hitler was an atheist; he wasn't).

Thanks for the first comment, well the second, perhaps for both.

Everyday "evil" - isn't that a religious term? I'm surprised it can be a concept for atheists- is perpertrated in the name of politics, not preventing a person from falling into poverty, not helping someone who is clinically insane, not having provisions to protect children and other "innocents" these are all examples of everyday political evil. These are things that are prevented from happening in some religious "communities". Capitalist systems, communist systems have caused many "evils" and they have nothing to do with religion. Men's actions are often led by personal gain not by religious motivation, even when religion is used as an excuse.

 

[FIF]

I notice you keep picking mid-20th century Communist dictators. Wasn't Communism just a euphemism for enforced worship? Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot all played the genocidal, vengeful, authoritarian god pretty well don't you think? It wasn't an alternative to religion, is was just an alternative religion.

PS No, but he was right.

You are now making up your own definition of religion which isn't the accepted definition of religion.

In fact it falls into line with my belief that man is "evil" and religion is just used by some to practice it. There are probably more "good" people in the world that are religious than there are "good" people that aren't religious.

My point here was the general tarring of all religious people as evil ****s who should be put to death (paraphrasing but not that much).

 

[Blue Maniac]

I think you are deluding yourself. Many "atheists" are really "anti-religionists"

Granted, some people hate religion without knowing why it's the right thing to do. Most rational, thinking atheists would happily believe in a god if you showed him/her/it to them. That's not to say we'd worship him/her/it, but we'd certainly believe.

Atheists make their decisions based on their own biases

Such as? Back this up.

what do you think reason is? I think it's supposed to be the ability of the mind to think, understand and form opinions - it doesn't make those opinions right. Religious people use reason.

opinion n. judgment or belief not founded on certainty or proof (Collins).

Opinions can be dangerous. The opinion of the founders of the KKK was that black people should be hanged by the side of the road. Should they have been allowed this opinion?

reason n. 1. the faculty of rational argument, deduction, judgment, etc. 2. sound mind, sanity (Collins).

That's what I think reason is, and look it's an actual dictionary definition. Notice the word 'rational'.

 

[The Major]

I notice you keep picking mid-20th century Communist dictators. Wasn't Communism just a euphemism for enforced worship? Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot all played the genocidal, vengeful, authoritarian god pretty well don't you think? It wasn't an alternative to religion, is was just an alternative religion.

All officially atheist though, a point that is often swept under the carpet by people who want to believe that religion is the root of all evil.

 

[FIF]

Granted, some people hate religion without knowing why it's the right thing to do. Most rational, thinking atheists would happily believe in a god if you showed him/her/it to them. That's not to say we'd worship him/her/it, but we'd certainly believe.



Such as? Back this up.



opinion n. judgment or belief not founded on certainty or proof (Collins).

Opinions can be dangerous. The opinion of the founders of the KKK was that black people should be hanged by the side of the road. Should they have been allowed this opinion?

reason n. 1. the faculty of rational argument, deduction, judgment, etc. 2. sound mind, sanity (Collins).

That's what I think reason is, and look it's an actual dictionary definition. Notice the word 'rational'.

My definition is the definition of reason taken from my copy of an Oxford dictionary - I prefer them to Collins - so where do we go from there?

I've read many papers about thought and reason and I really can't be bothered to stick up a few references here but if you can't agree that people's decisions are based conciously or unconciously on personal biases then we are unlikely to agree anyway.

by the way I take back my negative comment of you being whatever I said you were I confused you with footyguts. :icon_lol:

 

[Blue Maniac]

Everyday "evil" - isn't that a religious term?

Not necessarily, it's easy for most of us to differentiate between right and wrong.

...is perpertrated in the name of politics, not preventing a person from falling into poverty, not helping someone who is clinically insane, not having provisions to protect children and other "innocents" these are all examples of everyday political evil. These are things that are prevented from happening in some religious "communities"....

Like the children outcast as witches in the very religious Nigeria?

Capitalist systems, communist systems have caused many "evils" and they have nothing to do with religion.

All the same, is this a reason to increase the number of excuses for these acts?

Men's actions are often led by personal gain not by religious motivation, even when religion is used as an excuse.

But religion is often used as an excuse. If we take that away, they have one less excuse. What's hard to understand about that?

You are now making up your own definition of religion which isn't the accepted definition of religion.

Not really, it's the religion model without the actual god. If you can't see that then I'm surprised you've been able to put together such a coherent argument.

My point here was the general tarring of all religious people as evil ****s who should be put to death (paraphrasing but not that much).

Not put to death, but educated. If we were to put them to death, how much better would we be than medieval Christians (or modern-day Muslims)?

 

[Blue Maniac]

All officially atheist though, a point that is often swept under the carpet by people who want to believe that religion is the root of all evil.

I'll accept that they didn't believe in a creator god, but surely you can see that they created their own parallel religion?