Protests in the US

[pork pie fox]

Why your name matters in the search for a job - BBC News

Why jobseekers with ethnic names change personal details on their CVs.

www.bbc.co.uk

I was just about to post the same link

 

[Matt_B]

I have experienced racism in general. But i do not believe there is a systemic racism issue in the US or the UK. Blacks, in my experience, in the US tend to use it as an excuse when the real issues are fatherhood-related etc. These murders in the US, no one forces these young men to pull the trigger. I wholly believe you make decisions in life. How about not pulling the trigger and being a father to your kids? Get a crappy job if you must, but work hard.

Can you name a clear example of systemic racism in the UK?

Actually, single parent rates in the UK are broadly similar for Asian and Black populations. And only slightly above the makeup of the population (4% black population, 6% single parent on average). It doesn't indicate their fathers are more likely to leave their kids than white fathers. Also, given there are significantly more white fathers leaving kids than black fathers, it doesn't really paint a picture of it being a solely black problem

 

[ThaiSweetChilli]

Actually, single parent rates in the UK are broadly similar for Asian and Black populations. And only slightly above the makeup of the population (4% black population, 6% single parent on average). It doesn't indicate their fathers are more likely to leave their kids than white fathers. Also, given there are significantly more white fathers leaving kids than black fathers, it doesn't really paint a picture of it being a solely black problem

My figures were based on the US not the UK, forgive me if that wasn't clear. The dynamic here and there as you know is obviously very different too

Also, the whole thing that Obama said re 20 times more likely to end up in jail etc., was a general statistic re any child.

Having said that, what you've brought up is definitely a problem. More and more children are being raised in single-parent households and the data is clear that that is not as beneficial as a two-parent household.

 

[Miles Away]

Exhausting.

if you say that the black community has “issues” with fatherhood and violent crime, and don’t believe in systemic racism, then there is only one conclusion to draw about what you think is the cause.

 

[mabrah]

Why do so many black folk resist arrest?

For me, that is an interesting question. And I'm serious. One can guess (fear of having the shit kicked out of you in the paddy wagon??) but there does seem to be a genuine fear/distrust of the police within the black community. Why is that?

I read of a London nurse, a seemingly decent human being who, when stopped by police, refused to get out of her car. She was apparantly afraid to without there being a female officer present. What was the reason behind her fear?

Here, in France with the high profile case of Adama Traroe (who died in custody) Again, a decent human being. He was at a cafe with his brother when police appeared to question his brother. Not him, his brother, yet he ran. Why?

I am most positively NOT suggesting either had something to hide. I am wondering why this fear exists. There is a very real distrust of police in certain communities. The policing itself may not be racist (it's a complex question but my 'cut to the chase' feeling is that their is racism at play in some form, at some level) Either way, there's a very real perception that it is.

I think it right to ask difficult questions (as Sam Harris does) and to look at the figures (not that they tell the story, merely portray the outcome) I don't like to see knee-jerk, simplistic reactions to want are quite clearly complex issues.

That's not to say there are no racist coppers. We all agree, clearly there are. And my own belief is that there is a what we might call (for the sake of argument) a form of institutional racism both in the police and the state.

I personally DO believe white male privilege exists. That's not to say a black female can't sucede or make her way but 'the system' is not geared towards her, for a multitude of reasons. I feel you really do have to go back to such things as poverty, housing, education (and access to), health, community, etc etc. Equally, in terms of policing, what happens within that institution in terms of training and values, empowerment of the individual officer to act in certain ways. Simply trying to assess the issue of police racism on the basis of news footage is fraught with difficulty. What you see might clearly be injustice but to draw a line from it to make any single conclusion is a stretch.

 

[pork pie fox]

 

[mabrah]

I'm aware that I'm only watching part of a story with that video. I'm wondering what happens before/after. I could be watching a policeman waiting patiently for a licence and registration check to come in whilst the driver lets off steam.

 

[ThaiSweetChilli]

I was just about to post the same link

I'll have a read later on!

Exhausting.

if you say that the black community has “issues” with fatherhood and violent crime, and don’t believe in systemic racism, then there is only one conclusion to draw about what you think is the cause.

Are you blaming systemic racism on simply not being there as a father, a role model, a teacher for your child?

Are you blaming systemic racism on someone buying a firearm, carrying the firearm around and then making the choice to pull the trigger and potentially take someone's life?

**** me.

Exhausting.

 

[Miles Away]

I'll have a read later on!



Are you blaming systemic racism on simply not being there as a father, a role model, a teacher for your child?

Are you blaming systemic racism on someone buying a firearm, carrying the firearm around and then making the choice to pull the trigger and potentially take someone's life?

**** me.

Exhausting.

what are you blaming?

 

[ThaiSweetChilli]

For me, that is an interesting question. And I'm serious. One can guess (fear of having the shit kicked out of you in the paddy wagon??) but there does seem to be a genuine fear/distrust of the police within the black community. Why is that?

I read of a London nurse, a seemingly decent human being who, when stopped by police, refused to get out of her car. She was apparantly afraid to without there being a female officer present. What was the reason behind her fear?

Here, in France with the high profile case of Adama Traroe (who died in custody) Again, a decent human being. He was at a cafe with his brother when police appeared to question his brother. Not him, his brother, yet he ran. Why?

I am most positively NOT suggesting either had something to hide. I am wondering why this fear exists. There is a very real distrust of police in certain communities. The policing itself may not be racist (it's a complex question but my 'cut to the chase' feeling is that their is racism at play in some form, at some level) Either way, there's a very real perception that it is.

I think it right to ask difficult questions (as Sam Harris does) and to look at the figures (not that they tell the story, merely portray the outcome) I don't like to see knee-jerk, simplistic reactions to want are quite clearly complex issues.

That's not to say there are no racist coppers. We all agree, clearly there are. And my own belief is that there is a what we might call (for the sake of argument) a form of institutional racism both in the police and the state.

]These are difficult questions but that's the reason why they're worth discussing.

I'm not entirely sure why the aforementioned cases resisted arrest. There does seem to be a distrust. It's only been 50/60 years since the civil rights movement. Which is not a short amount of time, but it's not a long time. And the memory of genuine widespread racism is still fresh in the minds of parents/grandparents today and that fear is passed on through generations.

Rayshard Brooks resisted arrest. But that was because he was on probation and was probably going to go back to prison if he got arrested. It's all about decision-making. Did he think he was going to escape and the cops wouldn't catch up with him sometime? They had his car for Christ's sake. That was really very tragic as everything seemed so rational and calm until that point. Had he not resisted arrest, he'd be alive today. That's not to suggest the officer was right to kill him, but Mr. Brooks made a series of very poor decisions leading to his death.

I reckon this a culture issue rather than race issue. Interestingly, first and second generation African immigrants do better in terms of education, career and wealth over black Americans whose family have been in the US for hundreds of years. The culture is different and I wonder if that also goes for police interractions.

 

[Robin127]

I'm at a loss for words...

 

[Robin127]

I'm aware that I'm only watching part of a story with that video. I'm wondering what happens before/after. I could be watching a policeman waiting patiently for a licence and registration check to come in whilst the driver lets off steam.

From what I could make out the bloke got pulled over for not using his indicator and a cop pulled a gun on him when he approached the car.

 

[ThaiSweetChilli]

what are you blaming?

You've answered a question with a question and thrown it back to me. You made a statement. If you believe what you're saying is correct then hold up your argument with a reasonable defence or don't make the case for it.

If I have an argument, I hold it up to the best of my ability. And if I'm wrong then so be it; I'm in my 20s, I'll improve.

So back to you, Sire. I'm without internet for a day or 2, so I'll respond then!

I'm at a loss for words...

You chose to write a post about you having nothing to write? Loving the irony!!

Okay, so, wow, he told that officer off and was great. The cop was speechless
If the cop did come out with his gun drawn then the guy is spot on. Of course there is no evidence to suggest this has anything to do with race or racism. And it's just a short clip with no context. Nevertheless, the guy was great in his delivery and what he said.

It looks like we're having a positive feedback loop: Law enforcement uses brutality and unfairly murders black suspect ----> Black people build more hostility and anger towards law enforcement ----> Law enforcement are aware of this and are more prone to making judgemental errors in tense and fast situations ----> Black people are scared of being treated unfairly and are more prone to doing things like resisting arrest ----> Repeat.

The only way to break this is dialogue imo. All police are not racist evil ****s. All black people are not violent criminals. A small percentage in both cases.

A lot of things are instinctual. I.e., it's hard to prove racism unless it's blatant, but from my experience you can sometimes have a sense (rightly or wrongly) of it. Like my instances at Stamford Bridge.

I suppose from law enforcement's side, if they are used to black suspects resisting arrest, then this may factor in the cop's attitude when stopping a black person. I'm not saying it's warranted, but if the majority of homocides are caused by black people fitting a certain description (young black male) then would this make law enforcement naturally more hostile to for eg., a young black male who has his jeans half way down his legs in a bad neighbourhood?

Similarly, black folk may be pre-disposed to believing that law enforcement have it in for them and will treat them unfairly from the beginning. So they naturally dislike law enforcement and this energy is demonstrated by having an attitude towards law enforcement, not doing what they're told etc.

Now police are getting upset, some people wish to defund them. Many feel unfairly treated. It's all gone a bit pear-shaped to be honest. Burning more buildings and taking over Seattle is not the answer imo. I wish they'd just take the area in Seattle back, the tyrants are running it like a dictatorship ironically with their own version of law enforcement and racial segregation It's all tough though, how do you build that trust?

 

[Fox Fan]

In the 1960s in the US, 23% of black kids grew up without a father in the house and that was considered a catastrophe. Then the governemnt introduced welfare essentially saying if you haven't got a man in the house we'll give you some cash.
Today 74% of black kids in the US grow up with a father in the house. That is a HUGE number.

It's 3% different isn't it