Relegation?

[Brown Nose]

By sheer ability - Barnes, Vardy, Kelechi, Ricardo, Castagne, Souttar, Faes, Ndidi and Praet will tear apart the Championship.

We cannot afford to pay any of these players what they're currently earning. Almost all of them earn more than ANY current Championship player.

For anyone working through our squad list to pick a team for next season, please tell me how we pay ANY of their wages?

 

[Robin127]

...Rodgers talked about players with bad attitudes...

And that I think was probably down to Rodgers himself.

 

[popillius]

Not everyone will be for sale.

We cannot afford to pay any of these players what they're currently earning. Almost all of them earn more than ANY current Championship player.

We've no idea what their contract arrangements are. We will be losing a massive chunk off the wage bill elsewhere, we will reduce staff across the club where we can, we will have PL parachute payments and we.will renegotiate terms with our lenders who will of course accept because otherwise we risk an administration that will see their capital disappear forever.

It's not pretty, but it's not the dire picture you are painting. Sell Maddison and Barnes, both of who will have interested clubs, get all those out of contract off the wage bill, get rid of as many non-essential staff as possible, activate any relegation clauses we have and renegotiate any contracts if and where possible and that should be enough to get us through the first season without having to slice open the belly of the club.

All this talk of getting rid of all and sundry isn't just akin to setting yourself on fire to cure an itch, it's also unrealistic. In truth, there won't be that many clubs who are that interested in a lot of our squad. For all the huff and puff spouted about Iheanacho, they'll be precious few clubs willing to spend the cash and wages on him when he is so mind bogglingly inconsistent. I don't think Kristiansen or Faes have done enough to have clubs purring about them although the latter may attract the odd enquiry. Ricardo's injury record will put everyone off from paying out enough to get him as will Justin's. Castagne, Thomas, KDH, Soumare, Daka.... none of these will be fought over because they've been either ****ing awful the whole season or don't offer enough of an improvement on existing players elsewhere.

It's shit but with the right approach we could bounce back quickly. That means keeping as many of our decent players as possible. It does also mean being organised and thorough in our club management however; that's where the plan falls down somewhat.

 

[Jeff]

Not everyone will be for sale.

When we went down in 2002 and were in a dire financial situation, not everyone was for sale. We were desperate to get high earners like Izzet, Walker and Elliott off the wage bill, but when we couldn't get rid of them we ended up having to sell Matt Piper instead, despite saying he wasn't for sale.

So it doesn't matter whether they're "for sale" or not, we'll end up having to sell players we want to keep if we can't get rid of the higher paid ones.

 

[ThaiSweetChilli]

We cannot afford to pay any of these players what they're currently earning. Almost all of them earn more than ANY current Championship player.

For anyone working through our squad list to pick a team for next season, please tell me how we pay ANY of their wages?

1. Tielemans, Amartey, Soyuncu, Evans, Mendy and Perez are all out of contract and Maddison will go. I'd say that's a hefty chunk off the wage bill.

2. We have no idea who, if anyone, has a relegation clause in their contract. That could help us lower the wage bill further.

3. We still have an income, albeit it much lower. So we have some money coming in which could ideally be topped by Maddison's sale and perhaps two more.

Unless it's because of a lack of ability or terrible attitude, I don't see why we have to get rid of everyone.

 

[H T B]

For those that think should the inevitable happen, and we bounce back straight away.
That is not a gimme.

The premier league 2006/7 was just on.
Top 10 finishes for Bolton, Reading, Portsmouth, Blackburn

Bottom half contained Charlton, Norwich, Sheff Utd, Wigan and Watford.
Yes, some have been yoyo clubs, but some had financial problems, and haven't been seen since!

 

[Miles Away]

When we went down in 2002 and were in a dire financial situation, not everyone was for sale. We were desperate to get high earners like Izzet, Walker and Elliott off the wage bill, but when we couldn't get rid of them we ended up having to sell Matt Piper instead, despite saying he wasn't for sale.

So it doesn't matter whether they're "for sale" or not, we'll end up having to sell players we want to keep if we can't get rid of the higher paid ones.

Nail. Head.

 

[popillius]

When we went down in 2002 and were in a dire financial situation, not everyone was for sale. We were desperate to get high earners like Izzet, Walker and Elliott off the wage bill, but when we couldn't get rid of them we ended up having to sell Matt Piper instead, despite saying he wasn't for sale.

So it doesn't matter whether they're "for sale" or not, we'll end up having to sell players we want to keep if we can't get rid of the higher paid ones.

The first sentence of your post is why the rest of it isn't hugely relevant; our situation now is not dire.

If the same does happen, then we're left with our better players whilst we get offers for Thomas, Castagne, Soumare and Daka. Not a problem.

The fact remains that there absolutely will be clubs interested in Barnes and Maddison; there have been for two years now. Sell them, and we don't need to enter into any negotiations for any of the rest of them.

 

[Elon Bust]

By sheer ability - Barnes, Vardy, Kelechi, Ricardo, Castagne, Souttar, Faes, Ndidi and Praet will tear apart the Championship.

There is no way all those players will stay and it may be that we suffer some kind of hangover effect from this season. Look at the names in the Sunderland team that finished bottom of the Championship in 2017/18: Aiden McGeady, John O'Shea, Paddy McNair, Lee Cattermole, Marc Wilson. These were supposed to be decent Premier League players only one season before.

 

[M17TT C]

Yep, complete change is required and I would keep a handful at best.

Iversen, one of Thomas/Kristiansen, Souttar, KDH and Barnes.

I'd like to try and keep JJ too but he is probably one of our more sellable assets and may have to go if we can't shift the shite.

 

[popillius]

There is no way all those players will stay and it may be that we suffer some kind of hangover effect from this season. Look at the names in the Sunderland team that finished bottom of the Championship in 2017/18: Aiden McGeady, John O'Shea, Paddy McNair, Lee Cattermole, Marc Wilson. These were supposed to be decent Premier League players only one season before.

They may have no choice.

 

[Graz]

Everyone will be available, but doesn't mean everyone will go.

Losing big earners at the end of their contracts (Youri, Soyuncu) and then selling others who will be in demand (Maddison, Barnes, possibly Ndidi) will free up a lot of money.

There is absolutely no one I'd say with certainty will still be here next season, but we won't get rid of everyone - either because we don't need to once we've got rid of some of the big ones above, or because we can't find takers for them with the wages they're on even when we're willing to let them go for near nothing (Perez has been the most obvious example of this for a while, Vardy could be another now).

I wouldn't be surprised to see Amartey sign a new contract and stay... And I think we will still struggle to find a taker for Vestergaard!

 

[camberwell fox]

1. Tielemans, Amartey, Soyuncu, Evans, Mendy and Perez are all out of contract and Maddison will go. I'd say that's a hefty chunk off the wage bill.

I would estimate that collection of wages at between £400 - £500k PW.

So close to £30 million PA.

 

[give_us_a_wave]

The 60’s , we were bloody good , almost did the double (spurs ****s) 5 cup finals.
Finished in relegation
World Cup winner in goal
Wonder how fans of that era took the relegation.

They were gutted. But on the other hand, the gap in quality between the top 2 divisions in those days was negligible so there was still decent football to watch.They were convinced they'd come back quickly (which of course they did)
But most crucially, despite how good the team had been they won ****ing nothing. The league cup when we won it was a brand new competition nobody really gave a **** about. A lot of people expected it to be a failed experiment that would be scrapped.

This time though, we've won both major trophies & had 3 seasons in europe. The drop of is much worse & much more hurtful.

& of course, the financial damage done to a club by being relegated from the top flight in 1969 amounted to roughly half a crown.

 

[glyn]

The first sentence of your post is why the rest of it isn't hugely relevant; our situation now is not dire.

I can’t recall as many threads such as this in 2002. I don’t think we outside knew then we were in such a dire situation, until it unfolded publicly later in the summer. The club clearly knew what the cost of relegation would be, as they will do now.

So it’s brave to confidently say we’re not in a dire situation at present.

Stand to be corrected when Jeff shows me 20 threads from 2002 about our wages and income.

 

[glyn]

This time though, we've won both major trophies & had 3 seasons in europe. The drop of is much worse & much more hurtful.

This is it isn’t it. It’s just such a come down from the last few years.

Makes our failures in the EL more galling. you never know when your next chance is going to be. Even on here some were ambivalent of staying in those comps in order to finish higher in the PL. Well here we are, no European football to distract us and still likely relegated.

 

[popillius]

I can’t recall as many threads such as this in 2002. I don’t think we outside knew then we were in such a dire situation, until it unfolded publicly later in the summer. The club clearly knew what the cost of relegation would be, as they will do now.

So it’s brave to confidently say we’re not in a dire situation at present.

Stand to be corrected when Jeff shows me 20 threads from 2002 about our wages and income.

I think it was widely known the trouble we were in and pretty obvious. I'm not saying we're in great shape, but we're not in a 'dire' position. (In fairness, Jeff didn't say that we were either).

 

[glyn]

I think it was widely known the trouble we were in and pretty obvious. I'm not saying we're in great shape, but we're not in a 'dire' position. (In fairness, Jeff didn't say that we were either).

I suppose what I mean is there was a difference between knowing we were “in trouble” (as you’d assume from relegation) to spiralling towards administration and the abyss, which I do think didn’t come apparent until later in the summer.

And we at least had ITV digital to blame then!

 

[popillius]

I suppose what I mean is there was a difference between knowing we were “in trouble” (as you’d assume from relegation) to spiralling towards administration and the abyss, which I do think didn’t come apparent until later in the summer.

And we at least had ITV digital to blame then!

Yeah, it was more of a closed book but I still think it was very apparent that we were in a huge amount of financial trouble and close to the abyss. I also think our assets then weren't anything like as valuable as they are now.

 

[SilverFox]

All I ask is an organised defence, two up top and 100% VISIBLE effort.

A couple of wins would be nice but no point on being a greedy **** is there?

All I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.