Strike!

[Doggie_muz]

You seem to have a very distorted view Indie. I'm not quite sure what benefits you perceive outweigh the drawbacks of low pay, a constant threat of redundancy, daily threats of assault or intimidation, dealing with over 1500 'customers' who, at any given time, could remove me from my job, suspend me and ensure that I never work in my chosen career again just because they fancy causing some trouble. Yes, it's such a wonderful cushy life working in teh public sector.

Whilst not wishing to speak for Indie, I think most people's problem with the strikes (those that have a problem with them anyway) is that the vast majority of private sector workers have to deal with similar downsides (certainly low pay, threat of redundancy etc), without the option to strike. That, and the fact that the current pension model for the public sector is clearly unsustainable and clearly inappropriate in the economic environment, regardless of what promises were made.

 

[Matt_B]

Whilst not wishing to speak for Indie, I think most people's problem with the strikes (those that have a problem with them anyway) is that the vast majority of private sector workers have to deal with similar downsides (certainly low pay, threat of redundancy etc), without the option to strike. That, and the fact that the current pension model for the public sector is clearly unsustainable and clearly inappropriate in the economic environment, regardless of what promises were made.

People's problems with the strike seem to be based on a lack of information and a willingness to believe red-top propaganda and 'what my mate said' facts.

 

[The Major]

People's problems with the strike seem to be based on a lack of information and a willingness to believe red-top propaganda and 'what my mate said' facts.

Are you saying that it isn't true that public service pensions are more generous than anyone in the private sector can achieve for the same money?

 

[Matt_B]

Are you saying that it isn't true that public service pensions are more generous than anyone in the private sector can achieve for the same money?

I am. There are people in the private sector on better pensions than I'll ever earn as a teacher. I had a 6% pension when I worked in the private sector which may be less but the salary was considerably better than I can hope to earn for the next ten years as a teacher. It evens out.

 

[Hazzman]

At last the roads were quiet this morning.

Weren't in the middle of the fecking day when I rose from my pit and drove the car horizontally as I am such a workshy fecker.

Are you saying that it isn't true that public service pensions are more generous than anyone in the private sector can achieve for the same money?

In the same way, I signed a piece paper saying here's your pension...now someone wants to take it away from me?
In the same way, how a lot of professionals within the public sector are significantly underpaid (even before the current situation) and how we're way over-stretched because of this problem.

 

[The Major]

I am. There are people in the private sector on better pensions than I'll ever earn as a teacher. I had a 6% pension when I worked in the private sector which may be less but the salary was considerably better than I can hope to earn for the next ten years as a teacher. It evens out.

For exactly the same contribution, in the private sector you got a final salary, index linked pension?

 

[OldGit]

Are you saying that it isn't true that public service pensions are more generous than anyone in the private sector can achieve for the same money?

I would say that it is untrue.

What is true that many in the public sector have pensions that are more "generous" than many in the private sector, but it is by no means universally true (and I'm not just referring to Fred the Shred and his ilk!).

This whole issue is bedevilled by sweeping statements and generalisations, not to mention blinding inaccuracies on the part of those who should know better (Like the BBC, who informed us that the nations bin-men would be out on strike today, ignoring the fact that there are virtually none of them left in the public sector!)

 

[The Major]

I'd like to see any private firm that gives a better pension than the public sector to people on comparable salaries.

 

[Lboro fox]

Whilst not wishing to speak for Indie, I think most people's problem with the strikes (those that have a problem with them anyway) is that the vast majority of private sector workers have to deal with similar downsides (certainly low pay, threat of redundancy etc), without the option to strike. That, and the fact that the current pension model for the public sector is clearly unsustainable and clearly inappropriate in the economic environment, regardless of what promises were made.

Agree entirely. I took a much bigger hit than is being reported 3years ago with no option of striking to prevent it. I simply had to work harder for much less. I have sympathy because I have been there, the difference was I had to work harder as a result not go on strike.

 

[OldGit]

I'd like to see any private firm that gives a better pension than the public sector to people on comparable salaries.

I have two which are comparable to traditional civil service pensions in most respects, and therefore better than those currently available to a large proportion of public sector workers.

 

[The Major]

I have two which are comparable to traditional civil service pensions in most respects, and therefore better than those currently available to a large proportion of public sector workers.

You seem to be obfuscating a bit, comparable, in most respects, better than a large proportion. I don't doubt that a senior banker gets a better pension than a dinner lady.

 

[Matt_B]

You seem to be obfuscating a bit, comparable, in most respects, better than a large proportion. I don't doubt that a senior banker gets a better pension than a dinner lady.

Whether or not your opinion is correct, do you think the government has a right to just change it whenever they feel in line with what the 'public' think is fair?

 

[The Major]

Whether or not your opinion is correct, do you think the government has a right to just change it whenever they feel in line with what the 'public' think is fair?

You've got a pretty good pension, you want to hang onto that and I don't blame you for that. The thing is those of us who haven't got it so good have to pay for it.
Despite who you blame the fact is the country is skint, people are living longer and these pensions are unsustainable in the long term.

 

[OldGit]

You seem to be obfuscating a bit, comparable, in most respects, better than a large proportion. I don't doubt that a senior banker gets a better pension than a dinner lady.

Sorry if my careful choice of words seemed like obfuscation - that was not my intention.

I was never a "senior banker" (Perhaps you were misled by me earlier saying I had for a time been a NED in a financial services company) or particularly highly paid. I said "in most respects" because they were not identical, but the accrual and contribution rates and indexing are the same as the old Principal Civil Service Scheme. Those terms have not been available to most of the public sector for a while now (and never were for many), hence my use of the term "a large proportion".

And again, most dinner ladies are now in the private sector.

 

[Matt_B]

You've got a pretty good pension, you want to hang onto that and I don't blame you for that. The thing is those of us who haven't got it so good have to pay for it.
Despite who you blame the fact is the country is skint, people are living longer and these pensions are unsustainable in the long term.

I didn't actually strike for two selfish, short term reasons. I can't afford a day off and if we are all going to be academies as predicted I see no long term future for a state ran pension in my sector.

I get very riled when people say anyone can teach and that it is an easy job. I have worked in both sectors (5 years private, 1 year teaching) and teaching involves a hell of a lot more work than my previous job. Teachers are as unnecessarily defensive about their position as people are unnecessarily offensive about how easy it is. Things like this strike don't help, the majority of the press is about teachers striking with barely a mention about the other public sectors workers, even though I would imagine that, percentage wise, teachers make up a minority.

We do have a good pension and we do have good holiday entitlement, but the salary is poor compared to degree level private sector work especially when you take into account all of the hours. Though it also irritates me when teachers say it is a lot harder than any other job, it isn't. There are plenty of harder jobs and plenty of easier jobs.

 

[spionfox]

Sick of hearing from these public sector workers with their cushy jobs, decent pay packets and fantastic pensions going on about how hard done to they are. Stop moaning.

Meanwhile, while they have a day off doing feck all, us private sector workers have to carry on as usual. Do you hear any of us moaning? Do you bollocks.

Ooh, Mawsley is going to slaughter you for that. He'll get up any minute I'm sure.

No, the Major & / or Spion, surely - this is clearly the politics of envy :icon_wink

I certainly won't be having a pop at the comments of indierich as I think he makes a valid point :icon_wink

 

[drew]

Whether or not your opinion is correct, do you think the government has a right to just change it whenever they feel in line with what the 'public' think is fair?

We didn't have a say when Gordon Brown raided the private sector pension funds.

We've all been suckered by government promises.

QE3/4/5 will be coming over the next few years, that's more theft from people.

 

[Matt_B]

We didn't have a say when Gordon Brown raided the private sector pension funds.

We've all been suckered by government promises.

QE3/4/5 will be coming over the next few years, that's more theft from people.

Surely that's one of the benefits of paying into a union?

 

[FoxCovert]

I work in the public sector and have for most of my working life, i dont earn as much as some people i know in the private sector, but i entered into a contract with my employer who offfered a final salary scheme, i contribute as well as my employer and i also pay taxes as do people in the private sector. I did strike today, because this govt in is on a vindictive, idealogical pursuit of the public sector backed by a media that has been manipulating popular opinion by perpetuating myths about the average public sector worker and what they will get in retirement.
How would you like it if someone proposed taking off you what you had earned and worked for most of your working life. In some areas public sector organisations are the largest employers, what happens to those small, medium sized businesses in those areas that public sector workers spend their money in when their lower than average pay and their pensionable income is squeezed while CEO's, bankers and senior managers in the private sector get away with tax dodges and million pound pensions. Open your eyes and get real those who think the average Joe in the public sector has got it cushy.

 

[MKFox]

**** right off, Pensions are bollocksed across the board. Just do what we've all had to do and take a bite of the shite sandwich.
Fecking 9 to 5 lefty tossers