Strike!

[FoxCovert]

Who forced you not to?

Did someone force you to take a job with a pension worse than mine?

 

[Motown Fox]

My daughter who is a Teaching Assistant went into work today and 2 out of 7 teachers turned up and the Head. There were 10 in total but the School was not allowed to open to kids and they just finished up doing odd jobs and my daughter became a handy woman and they ended up putting up the Christmas Tree and lights.

 

[popillius]

More fool you for believing a bunch of charlatans promise.

GB promised no more boom and bust, did you fall for that one as well?

No, but then that's an entirely different point isn't it? Besides, it isn't a Labour government who are stealing our pensions is it? What an absurd counter argument!

 

[popillius]

My daughter who is a Teaching Assistant went into work today and 2 out of 7 teachers turned up and the Head. There were 10 in total but the School was not allowed to open to kids and they just finished up doing odd jobs and my daughter became a handy woman and they ended up putting up the Christmas Tree and lights.

You are correct. What a waste of tax payer's money. The reason behind this however does not fall at the feet of those striking, but those who created the strike; I give you HM Government.

 

[drew]

No, but then that's an entirely different point isn't it? Besides, it isn't a Labour government who are stealing our pensions is it? What an absurd counter argument!

Not at all, we were promised no boom and bust by the worst chancellor in history, Ed Balls is now shadow chancellor, that ****ing **** was there behind the scenes as an advisor. He's now able to sit back and do what Labour would have done, this isn't about the ConDems or Labour, they both would have done the same, it's just that Labour can sit back and say "we wouldn't have done that", what credible economic plan have they come up wit in the 18 months of not being in power, all the rhetoric they spout is "we wouldn't have done that", what the **** would they have done? Borrow more, spend more. It doesn't work.

Are you living under a rock? Do you not see the economic chasm we are in here and worldwide? Everyone is faced with cuts, extra pension contributions and working longer. The public sector strikers think they're punishing the government, they're not it's the taxpayer that takes the hit.

You cannot saddle the private sector with ever increasing taxes and expect it to fix the problem, it won't.

The US has agreed to bailout the Eurozone today, why? I suspect that there were some more MF Globals teetering on the edge the fed got wind and stepped in.

We are heading for a period of deflation then inflation worse than the 30's, all pensions will become worthless.

 

[Siouxsie]

Regardless of the economic situation (which certainly doesn't help) the basic problem is that people are living longer. This should have been obvious to the actuaries and others running these pension schemes long, long ago but no one has dared face up to the inevitable consequence that we just can't afford to pay people what they had been promised as pensions. The private sector pensions are becoming more expensive for lower benefits and now the public sector is having to adjust too. I went to an NHS Pensions Choices Roadshow where they said that the NHS pension scheme is the 2nd largest in the world, add to that all the other public sector schemes. The figures are staggering, and people like my great-aunt who died last year just short of her 100th birthday was drawing her pension for more years than she was working and contributing.

 

[Dour]

I went to an NHS Pensions Choices Roadshow where they said that the NHS pension scheme is the 2nd largest in the world

That would be because the NHS, rightly or wrongly, is the fourth largest employer in the world. After Walmart, Indian Railways and the Chinese Petroleum Company. All of which pay wages, rightly or wrongly, on average far below that of the NHS.

 

[popillius]

For the benefit of both drew and Siouxsie I shall re-post what I wrote earlier:

Don’t fall into the tissue of lies that paints this system as unsustainable. Every single study of the figures except that of our idiotic chancellor and his team of renegade morons shows that, in real terms, the current scheme is more than affordable. Both the National Audit Office and the House of Commons' Public Accounts Committee BOTH show, unequivocally, that the cost of public sector pensions is falling as planned and will continue to do so...

You are getting sucked into believing fabrication. It is my job to know the figures!

 

[MKFox]

Len mccluskey, ginger scouse arse. Just stay in the north you bell cheese

 

[drew]

For the benefit of both drew and Siouxsie I shall re-post what I wrote earlier:

Don’t fall into the tissue of lies that paints this system as unsustainable. Every single study of the figures except that of our idiotic chancellor and his team of renegade morons shows that, in real terms, the current scheme is more than affordable. Both the National Audit Office and the House of Commons' Public Accounts Committee BOTH show, unequivocally, that the cost of public sector pensions is falling as planned and will continue to do so...

You are getting sucked into believing fabrication. It is my job to know the figures!

Is this before or after the 700,000 less people paying into the scheme by 2016 has been factored in?

 

[Steven]

Become a Policeman/woman.

Tim Godwin, who stepped in as the Metropolitan Police’s acting commissioner earlier this year, is in line for a six-figure salary on top of his £160,000-a-year pension.

 

[spionfox]

Regardless of the economic situation (which certainly doesn't help) the basic problem is that people are living longer.

Logans Run showed us the way with Carousel at thirty.

 

[RHYDAL]

Most of the people I know from uni who have failed in their chosen career path have gone on to become teachers after about a year's training. They are idiots. Anyone can teach.

In fairness, it's a bit of a stretch to think that anyone can teach. Cyrus couldn't.

On the flip side, anyone could take 13 weeks off work a year, only teachers can.

 

[RHYDAL]

Is this before or after the 700,000 less people paying into the scheme by 2016 has been factored in?

And realistic economic growth in the future of maybe only a couple of % a year at best rather than Brown fantasy figures?

 

[indierich06]

Perhaps the most cretinous and ill-informed comment I've ever read on here. I too am not a teacher but the incredible stresses and strains of the job are documented thoroughly by those who, like me, may not be in the profession but understand it. You, I assume are in a much more important, skilful job that only you and a handful of experts across the globe could succeed in.... Or are you, as I suspect, in a position for which you don't need to have the patience, dedication or education to be able to teach anyone, anything? The fact that you elude to the notion that you too, have been through the University system tells me a lot more about the blight on higher education and not those who have used their degrees to pass on the need for learning to imbeciles like you.

Thanks for the plaudits. I didn't say teaching was easy or make any elusion to the fact that it isn't a taxing job. The fact that you've completely misinterpreted my post so you can go on some self-righteous rant against me says it all. I said that anyone could do it. What I meant was that pretty much anyone educated to a GCSE level can walk into a teacher training course and be in a job within about 18 months. I have friends with children and their homework comes back from teachers with spelling mistakes on it and maths problems marked incorrectly when there was nothing wrong with them. This is at primary school level. My english teacher at GCSE level didn't know what hyperbole was and didn't know the difference between accept and except. If teacher training standards in this country were more stringent I wouldn't be complaining, but it seems that all you have to do is go to the course, get your piece of paper and off you go, ready to educate the future of our country, whether you're any good or not. Many people have actually suggested to me that I should go into teaching as they feel I would be very good at it. I wouldn't want to as I'm happy with my career path and doing a job that I enjoy outweighs the financial benefits and future security, it gets me out of bed in the morning. The money is shite and probably will be for the forseeable future, but if I'm going to spend my life toiling for **** all money anyway, I may as well keep my integrity and spend it doing something I enjoy.

I have no doubts that could someone could start my job tomorrow and with training they could probably be at the same level as me within about a year. The difference is, I don't harp on about how difficult my job is and how precious I am every ten minutes and moan about my pay and pension situation.

The benefits of these positions are exactly why public sector workers chose to go down that road with regards to career choice. These were some of the key reasons many people dedicated themselves to work, for the public, in jobs that weren't hugely paid, so they could have security for their futures. These promises, the very foundations of what convinced many highly skilful graduates to enter public service, have now been reneged on by a government who are lying to people like you, about the affordability of such schemes.

You had the choice to go into public service and give you and your family a stable future and you failed to take it. You chose to enter a career which gave you no pension option and have since opted out of paying into one ever since you started working. This idiotic short-sighted decision isn't the fault of public sector employees. You could always go into teaching of course, 'Anyone can teach' can't they?

The fact you naively believe that everyone in the public sector is devoted and dedicated to working for the public is ridiculous. I would say a lot of people did it for the benefits it involves - mainly the pensions. As many people have said, the public sector pensions scheme is an absolute joke and is completely unsustainable. Why should the majority of the working public have to pay to support them? They have the right to strike over it, as the government have made promises to them and have broken them, but don't expect to find any sympathy from private sector workers who are going through the same hardships, if not worse, but without any of the benefits which public sector workers receive.

The fact you believe I have 'opted out' of paying into a pension and call it a ridiculous short sighted decision is, quite frankly, insulting. I would be paying into a pension if I could afford it. At the moment, clothes on my back, food on my table and a roof over my head are more important to me than the future. I cannot afford a pension, I'm saddled with debt, I work two jobs and I just about make ends meet. The difference between me and public sector workers is that I'm prepared to knuckle down and work as hard as I can over the next few years to get myself into the position where I can start to put money away for my future - that's my responsibility, no-one elses. I never blamed public sector workers, I don't blame anyone. I don't moan about the fact that my financial situation isn't fantastic, I just get on with it. The selfishness of public sector workers is astounding, they're like spoiled children throwing a tantrum becuase they've had their sweets taken away. Well, here's a newsflash; we're all absolutely ****ed. Out of everyone, public sector workers have got the best deal. Yet who is doing the moaning?

I could go into teaching, yes, I have no doubt that if I wanted to I could be in a teaching job in the next couple of years. I never would because I've never wanted to and I haven't given up on my career. There's more to life than money.

Hmmmm, it seems you are far easier to replace than a teacher or a midwife then?

No, that's just the nature of the public sector. Don't kid yourself that public sector workers are irreplacable. There are more people lining up for those jobs every single day. In fact, they are more coveted than private sector jobs because of the benefits they bestow on their workers. You try and get a job as a firefighter and see how many people are fighting for those positions, they could replace people within a matter of days.

This is simply wrong. Perhaps a good idea would be to check out FACTS before spouting any more verbal diarrhoea. Don't believe the comments made by tabloids or our esteemed PM who has delivered precisely none of his pre-election promises, actually do some research. It will have been one of the skills you learned at school from your teachers.

Did they teach you to read at school? Or did you just get a GCSE in skimming posts and making moronic comments? Re-read what I wrote:

"Most of the public sector workers I know are striking today. Are they on the picket lines? No, the majority of them are doing their Christmas shopping or they're down the pub. Just another day off for them, so much for solidarity."

Off the top of my head, I know 8 public sector workers who were on strike yesterday. Two of them live up the road from me and spent the day in Greenwich at the pub, three of them went Christmas shopping and the rest of them stayed at home as far as I know. I know for a fact none of them picketed.

Have a word with yourself before you make such ill-advised and ridiuclous comments again. To quote your lovely phrase at the beginning of this mess, your post is "perhaps the most cretinous and ill-informed" I've ever read.

 

[Matt_B]

Thanks for the plaudits. I didn't say teaching was easy or make any elusion to the fact that it isn't a taxing job. The fact that you've completely misinterpreted my post so you can go on some self-righteous rant against me says it all. I said that anyone could do it. What I meant was that pretty much anyone educated to a GCSE level can walk into a teacher training course and be in a job within about 18 months. I have friends with children and their homework comes back from teachers with spelling mistakes on it and maths problems marked incorrectly when there was nothing wrong with them. This is at primary school level. My english teacher at GCSE level didn't know what hyperbole was and didn't know the difference between accept and except. If teacher training standards in this country were more stringent I wouldn't be complaining, but it seems that all you have to do is go to the course, get your piece of paper and off you go, ready to educate the future of our country, whether you're any good or not. Many people have actually suggested to me that I should go into teaching as they feel I would be very good at it. I wouldn't want to as I'm happy with my career path and doing a job that I enjoy outweighs the financial benefits and future security, it gets me out of bed in the morning. The money is shite and probably will be for the forseeable future, but if I'm going to spend my life toiling for **** all money anyway, I may as well keep my integrity and spend it doing something I enjoy.

I have no doubts that could someone could start my job tomorrow and with training they could probably be at the same level as me within about a year. The difference is, I don't harp on about how difficult my job is and how precious I am every ten minutes and moan about my pay and pension situation.



The fact you naively believe that everyone in the public sector is devoted and dedicated to working for the public is ridiculous. I would say a lot of people did it for the benefits it involves - mainly the pensions. As many people have said, the public sector pensions scheme is an absolute joke and is completely unsustainable. Why should the majority of the working public have to pay to support them? They have the right to strike over it, as the government have made promises to them and have broken them, but don't expect to find any sympathy from private sector workers who are going through the same hardships, if not worse, but without any of the benefits which public sector workers receive.

The fact you believe I have 'opted out' of paying into a pension and call it a ridiculous short sighted decision is, quite frankly, insulting. I would be paying into a pension if I could afford it. At the moment, clothes on my back, food on my table and a roof over my head are more important to me than the future. I cannot afford a pension, I'm saddled with debt, I work two jobs and I just about make ends meet. The difference between me and public sector workers is that I'm prepared to knuckle down and work as hard as I can over the next few years to get myself into the position where I can start to put money away for my future - that's my responsibility, no-one elses. I never blamed public sector workers, I don't blame anyone. I don't moan about the fact that my financial situation isn't fantastic, I just get on with it. The selfishness of public sector workers is astounding, they're like spoiled children throwing a tantrum becuase they've had their sweets taken away. Well, here's a newsflash; we're all absolutely ****ed. Out of everyone, public sector workers have got the best deal. Yet who is doing the moaning?

I could go into teaching, yes, I have no doubt that if I wanted to I could be in a teaching job in the next couple of years. I never would because I've never wanted to and I haven't given up on my career. There's more to life than money.



No, that's just the nature of the public sector. Don't kid yourself that public sector workers are irreplacable. There are more people lining up for those jobs every single day. In fact, they are more coveted than private sector jobs because of the benefits they bestow on their workers. You try and get a job as a firefighter and see how many people are fighting for those positions, they could replace people within a matter of days.



Did they teach you to read at school? Or did you just get a GCSE in skimming posts and making moronic comments? Re-read what I wrote:

"Most of the public sector workers I know are striking today. Are they on the picket lines? No, the majority of them are doing their Christmas shopping or they're down the pub. Just another day off for them, so much for solidarity."

Off the top of my head, I know 8 public sector workers who were on strike yesterday. Two of them live up the road from me and spent the day in Greenwich at the pub, three of them went Christmas shopping and the rest of them stayed at home as far as I know. I know for a fact none of them picketed.

Have a word with yourself before you make such ill-advised and ridiuclous comments again. To quote your lovely phrase at the beginning of this mess, your post is "perhaps the most cretinous and ill-informed" I've ever read.

I got as far as the bollocks about anyone with GCSEs walking into a teacher training course and gave up. You cannot get on to any teacher training course without at least a 2.1 degree in a relevant subject and places are extremely limited. For my course there were over 200 applicants for 20 spaces, so only those who really met the criteria got on, not just anyone with GCSEs. If you are going to post more mis-informed shit, I'd do it at the end of a post so I don't have to stop in the first paragraph.

The problem is, I have no idea what you do or what your job entails/benefits, so I accept that I can't comment. You have no idea what teachers/public sector workers entail/benefit but you wrongly believe that you do, so spout nonsense. How would you feel working your two jobs if you suddenly had your salary halved for one of them?

 

[Lboro fox]

I got as far as the bollocks about anyone with GCSEs walking into a teacher training course and gave up. You cannot get on to any teacher training course without at least a 2.1 degree in a relevant subject and places are extremely limited. For my course there were over 200 applicants for 20 spaces, so only those who really met the criteria got on, not just anyone with GCSEs. If you are going to post more mis-informed shit, I'd do it at the end of a post so I don't have to stop in the first paragraph.

The problem is, I have no idea what you do or what your job entails/benefits, so I accept that I can't comment. You have no idea what teachers/public sector workers entail/benefit but you wrongly believe that you do, so spout nonsense. How would you feel working your two jobs if you suddenly had your salary halved for one of them?

Only $495 at Suffield University and you don't even need to study for it, life experience is adequate.

 

[homer]

Off the top of my head, I know 8 public sector workers who were on strike yesterday. Two of them live up the road from me and spent the day in Greenwich at the pub, three of them went Christmas shopping and the rest of them stayed at home as far as I know. I know for a fact none of them picketed.

There are legal restrictions on the number of people allowed to stand on a picket line. The established Code of Practice on picketing recommends that there are a maximum of six people in attendance outside any single workplace entrance.

I would imagine that your eight people had been made fully aware of this fact, and had been informed by their union as to who was identified as being the six people in attendance throughout the day.

What did you expect them to do, stand across the street and cheer them on ?

 

[indierich06]

I got as far as the bollocks about anyone with GCSEs walking into a teacher training course and gave up. You cannot get on to any teacher training course without at least a 2.1 degree in a relevant subject and places are extremely limited. For my course there were over 200 applicants for 20 spaces, so only those who really met the criteria got on, not just anyone with GCSEs. If you are going to post more mis-informed shit, I'd do it at the end of a post so I don't have to stop in the first paragraph.

The problem is, I have no idea what you do or what your job entails/benefits, so I accept that I can't comment. You have no idea what teachers/public sector workers entail/benefit but you wrongly believe that you do, so spout nonsense. How would you feel working your two jobs if you suddenly had your salary halved for one of them?

Fine, I accept that I was wrong about the teacher training requirements, that's fair enough - I apologise. But if the places for these courses are so few and far between, why aren't better teachers being produced? I'm not tarring all teachers with the same brush by the way, depsite what I've said I do actually realise that it is a difficult job and I know that a lot of teachers do a very good job. But a lot of people I know who have gone into teaching are wholly unsuited for it in my opinion, I did journalism at degree level and masters level, a lot of people I know from those courses have gone into teaching, I can think of 5 or 6 off the top of my head - how is learning how to write for newspapers a relevant subject? Like I said in my post, I have friends who are parents and their children's homework comes back with mistakes all over it, and I made my point about my GCSE english teacher too, if these are among the best 20 out of 200 people, who the hell are they turning down? Anyway, I never meant to insult teachers, it wasn't the intention of my post - I was just trying to make the point that they aren't irreplaceable and it isn't a job which is irrefutably more difficult than any in the private sector. There are no easy jobs in either sector. Apologies if I caused any offense.

In reply to your second point about having my salary halved in my second job, well, what could I do? I have no recourse. I can't strike like public sector workers, I can either accept it, or find another job. As it happens, my second job is bar work. When I started at the pub I work at, I was on £8.50 an hour as I came in with cellar management qualifications (something I did in my spare time to boost my earnings when I was younger). The new landlord has now decided that he is going to take over managing the cellar as it will save money and he offered me a job as a regular barman on minimum wage, or I'd have to leave. What could I do? I accepted it and took the hit.

 

[indierich06]

There are legal restrictions on the number of people allowed to stand on a picket line. The established Code of Practice on picketing recommends that there are a maximum of six people in attendance outside any single workplace entrance.

I would imagine that your eight people had been made fully aware of this fact, and had been informed by their union as to who was identified as being the six people in attendance throughout the day.

What did you expect them to do, stand across the street and cheer them on ?

I think you're being deliberately facetious, but if you want me to spell it out, I know them all, none of them cared. They didn't want to march, they didn't want to picket. They spent most of the day texting me, crowing about their free day off.

Not everyone in the public sector is some starry-eyed, idealistic unionist.