Cardiff (a) 2-0

[homer]

What about calling them half backs as some sort of compromise ?

 

[Profondo Rosso]

If the quality of managers in top European leagues is better than in the Scottish league, then that doesn't explain Celtic or Aberdeen's European successes (working on your principle that we can't discount past glories), nor does it explain Alex Ferguson, Jock Stein

You're talking about an entirely different era when Scottish football was much stronger.

Martin O'Neill, who remains our club's best ever manager.

Does he? I'd say that he's probably our 3rd or 4th best manager. I'd say Matt Gillies, Peter Hodge and Willie Orr were all better managers for us.

And if that was the case and Portugese and Swedish football are comparable to Scottish football as you say, then surely Sven getting better European success with Swedish and Portugese sides than MON ever did with a Scottish side is a far better achievement?

What have Benfica achieved in Europe in recent seasons?

They've reached the knock-out stages of the CL, which is more than Celtic or Rangers have done in many a moon.

Again, if we have to bear in mind all past achievements and there's no possibility that a manager 'loses it' then why don't we bring in promotion maestro Dave Bassett, who's only a couple of years older than Sven? Or get Brian Little back! What about Big Ron?

Because Sven is miles better than all of them, so why would we want any of them over him?

Sven has had plenty of opportunities to win trophies since leaving Lazio! What about three major international competitions with England, at the same time as the English league was ranked 1st / 2nd in the world? A team boasting Lampard, Gerard, Ferdinand, Terry, Owen (golden boot era), Cole, Rooney, Beckham should have done better... there wasn't an international football pundit who could fathom why those players weren't capable of winning a tournament, while the likes of Greece (starring Theo Zagorakis) and Italy were.

Mentioning those names says it all. Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham were all very similar players, it's an extremely unbalanced side. It says everything about the very one dimension type of youth development this country has. If Sven was that

And Italy - crap?! Are you kidding me?! They were a much better side than England on paper. That side of 2006 had several of the best players of its generation in it.

A club manager in England or Scotland has 8 times as many opportunities to win trophies.

If you're bringing up the genius of Otto Rehhagel (probably the greatest manager with the "underdog" in the history of the game) then you could also say MON has has had had plenty of opportunities to win the PL too, in fact he's been in it a 5 seasons since the start of this century. So he's failed 5 times.

Managers DO lose it and the demands of English football are different to those of football overseas. There are plenty of half-decent foreign and even Premiership managers who screw up in the lower leagues (Coleman would be a recent example), just as there are many players who do the same. I like Sven, I think he's doing a decent job, but you shouldn't get carried away just yet.

Again, for the 343rd time: what does the style of English football have to do with MON being a better manager than Sven?

 

[Macky]

What about calling them half backs as some sort of compromise ?

I think I'd go with Middle-tackleman-with-executive-stopping-responsibilities, as a compromise

 

[4-4-2]

Eeek. Wrong thread.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

**** it! Even I can't be arsed with this argument any more.

If you want to carrying on hoping the team you "support" fails, syd, just so you can say "I told you so" in regards to Sven, because you are pissed off he got the job over Martin O'Neill, who didn't even want the job, then you are welcome do so. In the meantime, I'll enjoy our style of football and will hopefully enjoy good times ahead, while you watch bemoan any success we have and continue to say "Martin O'Neill would've done better" through clenched teeth.

 

[spionfox]

What about Big Ron?.

Too late. Brown went last summer.

 

[beaumontfox]

did anyone else take the 'scenic' M50 diversion route like we did?

 

[Blue Maniac]

did anyone else take the 'scenic' M50 diversion route like we did?

I kept remembering Deliverance as we wound our way through those villages thanks to that lying bitch that told us the wrong directions. The lying cow.

 

[GazLCFC]

I wonder whether the lack of a proper pre-season is beginning to catch up with us. It's around about now Swansea started to fall away last season.

Interesting weeks ahead

Of the team that started on Tuesday I believe that only 4 were here for pre-season. Not sure we can blame Sousa too much for fitness at this stage, just crap results a few months back. Remember Swansea would have had a poor fitness regime throughout the season, I assume we haven't.
I do worry however about players like Vassell who has played a lot of games of late, after not playing earlier in the season. The same can be said for a number of the loanees who are here because they weren't getting games.

 

[beaumontfox]

I kept remembering Deliverance as we wound our way through those villages thanks to that lying bitch that told us the wrong directions. The lying cow.

What villages?:icon_eek:

I saw the occasional house!( And they were all dark and deserted)


And then you started talking about Wolf Creek. I've decided I'm not watching that, OR that Eden Parks film Sidekick was on about.

 

[Hazzman]

Of the team that started on Tuesday I believe that only 4 were here for pre-season. Not sure we can blame Sousa too much for fitness at this stage, just crap results a few months back. Remember Swansea would have had a poor fitness regime throughout the season, I assume we haven't.
I do worry however about players like Vassell who has played a lot of games of late, after not playing earlier in the season. The same can be said for a number of the loanees who are here because they weren't getting games.

I was thinking of the midfield tbh. Wellens and King in particular.

 

[FryattFox]

BBC highlights here for anyone that hasn't seen (and resides in the UK)

 

[syd]

You're talking about an entirely different era when Scottish football was much stronger.

Does he? I'd say that he's probably our 3rd or 4th best manager. I'd say Matt Gillies, Peter Hodge and Willie Orr were all better managers for us.

Again, for the 343rd time: what does the style of English football have to do with MON being a better manager than Sven?

1 - When exactly does an era begin and end? We're supposed to bear in mind Sven's achievements with Benfica and Gothenburg in the 80s, but not Alex Ferguson's UEFA win with Aberdeen in the 80s... how does that work?

2 - Matt Gillies - won the fledgeling League Cup and nothing else. Left while we were in the process of getting relegated in 69. Willie Orr was fired for corruption and never won anything. Peter Hodge got us promoted once but did absolutely nothing else. What makes Peter Hodge better than, say, Gordon Milne? Or was he better than O'Neill too?

3 - The style of English football has everything to do with O'Neill being a better football manager in the English Championship than Sven.

And, for the 343rd time, I'm desperate for Sven to succeed and suspect he probably will, next year if not this. The truth remains, however, that he's done nothing yet, he's an unknown entity in English football and his career has been on the wane for a decade. When he actually achieves something along the lines of what O'Neill did for us, then I too may jump on your bandwagon. But until he reaches those heights, I see nothing wrong with questioning his decisions, such as selecting Bruma in midfield (which, I noticed, was the first time he'd played there since he was 15, in spite of your claims to the contrary).

 

[Profondo Rosso]

Wow, I know I said I wouldn't reply, but marring some of the most important names in your club's history is a bit bizarre. I understand you're going to have a stronger emotional connection with O'Neill, compared to any of those names as they were before your time, but it doesn't mean you should look them up on wikipedia or OFAF and completely missread things, probably deliberately to try and mar the names of great figures in the club's past.

Leicester were comfortably clear of the relegation zone when Gillies resigned, it was Frank o'Farrel who got them relegated.

Orr's corruption scandel was with Falkirk and had nothing to do with Leicester.

Hodge built the greatest side in the club's history and took the club from shoestring nothingness to the club it is today.

The league cup is the league cup. It's a secondary domestic competition in which the majority of the top division and a lot of the second division do not take seriously and do not play their first teams in. Alan Pardew isn't a better Southampton manager than Gordon Strachan because he won the Johnstone Paint's Trophy.

It is not a good measurement of who is the best manager because you're playing against teams' reserves sides and you can fluke your way to victory through the luck of the draw or luck in individual games. The league, of which Orr and Gillies both challenged for the league title and reached far greater heights than O'Neill and achieved more better finishes overall is a far better measurement of who the better manager is. Not only that, but the League Cup didn't even exist when Orr was manager and Gillies reached more cup finals than MON and they were in the FA Cup in an era when teams took it very seriously and most certainly played their first teams and they weren't against Tranmere Rovers either. One win against Tranmere Rovers does not make you a better manager than someone who challenged for league titles had several league finishes against your best league finishes and reached cup finals in more prestigious competitions.

And you keep changing your position, the original argument was that "O'Neill being a better football manager than Sven" then it was "O'Neill being a better Leicester manager than Sven." now it is "O'Neill being a better football manager in the English Championship than Sven." The style of play in England has nothing to do with O'Neill being a better manager than Sven which was your original argument. Glad to see you know you can't argue your original point so you've gone to try and changing what you are arguing for.

Anyway, that's it. I'm not going to reply from now on, this time I promise, no matter how stupid your reply is. This time I'll hold myself to it. I promise... :icon_wink

 

[beaumontfox]

tbf it doesn't matter if you think MON walks on water or not..


Yeah, ta for what you did matey, but you were more than ready to feck up the M1 to Leeds if we had given you the chance(or indeed any club as he seemed to change his mind on who he supported depending on who he was linked with) so a repeat of you here as manager?

No ta.

As much as MON did for us ON the pitch- his constant battles with people off it probably contributed as much to our financial meltdown as anything Peter Taylor did.

The dislike between him and Pierpoint was well-known, and whatever people may of thought of old Barrie- I very much doubt we would've fallen so spectactularly if he had still got his hands firmly on the purse-strings.

MON will quite deservedly always have legend status here for what he gave the fans, but that doesn't mean his era can be looked at through rose-tinted specs and that he couldn't do no wrong- he often did!

 

[SJN-Fox]

tbf it doesn't matter if you think MON walks on water or not..


Yeah, ta for what you did matey, but you were more than ready to feck up the M1 to Leeds if we had given you the chance(or indeed any club as he seemed to change his mind on who he supported depending on who he was linked with) so a repeat of you here as manager?

No ta.

As much as MON did for us ON the pitch- his constant battles with people off it probably contributed as much to our financial meltdown as anything Peter Taylor did.

The dislike between him and Pierpoint was well-known, and whatever people may of thought of old Barrie- I very much doubt we would've fallen so spectactularly if he had still got his hands firmly on the purse-strings.

MON will quite deservedly always have legend status here for what he gave the fans, but that doesn't mean his era can be looked at through rose-tinted specs and that he couldn't do no wrong- he often did!

 

[Miles Away]

As much as MON did for us ON the pitch- his constant battles with people off it probably contributed as much to our financial meltdown as anything Peter Taylor did.

bollocks!

 

[beaumontfox]

Do you honestly think if Pierpoint had still been at the club when Taylor took over, that he would've allowed that muppet to spend the money how he did?

Not a bloody chance of it. Despite whoever was in charge of the board, whilst Pierpoint was there not a penny moved anywhere without him knowing and oking it first.

 

[NN Fox]

Feck me! Are you two still at it?

 

[GazLCFC]

Feck me! Are you two still at it?

They all bloody are....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/hull_city/9407003.stm

The former Liverpool centre-half was player of the year at the Walkers Stadium last season, playing 44 of 46 league games under now Tigers boss Nigel Pearson......
"We've been on such a good run and both centre-halves have been great, especially in the two games since I've been here," Hobbs said.