Coronavirus

[Jeff]

you're just old and have good health then what's the need?

Because you can still be hospitalised, and the hospitals will struggle to cope with the numbers.

Maybe start by saying all over 80s should isolate. Then if things get worse, change it to over 75s, then over 70s if necessary. More has to be done to make sure hospitals aren't overwhelmed.

 

[ThaiSweetChilli]

Washing hands isn't the right answer. But it helps. Wearing a face mask is much more effective.

When they did the lockdown in China it was a huge success.

I believe the same. Mask is hugely effective and washing hands helps.

China is a different kettle of fish. With the UK we are so diverse and therefore everyone's thinking is so diverse. I'm Asian and all the stupid ****ers in my community are the ones panic buying. A lot of the same will choose not to stay in ironically.

China is also so communist. They're used to censorship and being told what to do. I have a feeling a lockdown in the UK would be very different. China's economy could also take a hit better than ours and luckily for then the majority of their cases came in a confined area so it's easy to lockdown say Birmingham for example than the whole country.

A very tough situation.

 

[ThaiSweetChilli]

Because you can still be hospitalised, and the hospitals will struggle to cope with the numbers.

Maybe start by saying all over 80s should isolate. Then if things get worse, change it to over 75s, then over 70s if necessary. More has to be done to make sure hospitals aren't overwhelmed.

Jeff for PM

 

[bocadillo]

The chances of fatality are very low until 59, 0.4% I believe. So it's literally the case of keeping those more vulnerable, safe.

Or, as is the case in Italy with people over the age of 80, not giving them any treatment whether or not there are underlying concerns?

 

[bocadillo]

They close schools and then what? Parents who still have to go into work. Then they have to [...] dump the kids at the grandparents' house.

I wonder how many of those grandparents will be over 60 and have an 'underlying condition'.

 

[ThaiSweetChilli]

I wonder how many of those grandparents will be over 60 and have an 'underlying condition'.

My point exactly. This is a tough situation. I don't think the answer is shutting everything down.

I'm currently in Argentina. I'm locked in here until further notice. They have started to panic and are shutting everything down: public transport, gyms, schools, universities, shopping malls etc. It won't end well for a country which already has a dhit economy and awful politics.

Regarding football, I hope there's a way we can play behind closed doors. Finish the season that way. I know it's not so simple but it gets rid of almost all of the risk.

 

[Miles Away]

And of course Barack Obama FFS.

yeah, what does he know, eh?

 

[FryattFox]

We're still looking at only a 3.5% fatality rate and the majority of those have existing respiratory or general health issues or are older.

Is no-one else taking issue with this?! That in the UK alone this would result in 2.3 million deaths, potentially 5 million hospitalised (versus circa 0.2 million beds...) and several million of seriously ill.

And you're acting as if that's ok?

And that's before you even start to consider that this may be a recurring virus (like the common cold) that people are only typically immune to for a matter of months (like the common cold).

 

[Miles Away]

I couldn't care less which party is in power and I don't doubt the independence of the Chief Medical Officer or Scientific Officer. It's nothing to do with that.

I've chosen to read various views on this from experts across the world. What our Chief Medical Officer and Scientific Office are saying is different to the vast majority of these other experts. Of course, this doesn't mean our experts are wrong and I've listened to their explanation and I think I understand it.

My assessment is that the UK approach is the wrong one. My assessment of the evidence is that you do everything possible to prevent this thing as quickly and dramatically as possible. You over-react. You put safety first every time. Pretty much every expert on every type of pandemic says this.

I understand the schools issue. I understand the isolation fatigue issue. I understand the 'herd immunity' issue. And I still think we should be being far more proactive now. And the only reason not to is based on wider considerations than keeping as many people alive as possible.

I think the 'keep calm and carry on' ethic is dangerous bollocks.

that article is about the best piece of digital media I’ve seen in ages. Lays it all bare in a way that makes visual sense.

it’s conclusion? Go home and stay away from each other for a bit.

 

[FryattFox]

 

[Volpone]

Because you can still be hospitalised, and the hospitals will struggle to cope with the numbers.

Maybe start by saying all over 80s should isolate. Then if things get worse, change it to over 75s, then over 70s if necessary. More has to be done to make sure hospitals aren't overwhelmed.

According to today's daily express 8 million of us are going to end up in hospital. Quite how this works when the NHS only has 200,000 beds is hard to see.

 

[ThaiSweetChilli]

Is no-one else taking issue with this?! That in the UK alone this would result in 2.3 million deaths, potentially 5 million hospitalised (versus circa 0.2 million beds...) and several million of seriously ill.

And you're acting as if that's ok?

And that's before you even start to consider that this may be a recurring virus (like the common cold) that people are only typically immune to for a matter of months (like the common cold).

3.5% worldwide, currently 2% in the UK.

But these figures are skewered. They say that 2% of those found to have tested positive for COVID-19 have died from it so far in the UK. 1372 have tested positive, 35 people have died, however 40,000 + people have been tested so of those tested the % of deaths is far lower.

We know how many people have died but have no truthful idea of how many have been infected as many symptoms are the same as the cold and flu as well as many people who just wouldn't bother to get tested or have themselves got sick and merely self-isolated. So there may well be 10k or 15k people actually infected with it but have no idea or have ridden out the stem assuming it to just be a cold.

This is why it's imperative not to panic. Figures can be misleading.

2.3 million deaths is on the assumption that 100% of the population contract the disease. But the math isn't quite as simple as that either.

Almost all of the deaths are in elderly people and/or with underlying health issues notably respiratory ones. The key to predicting the death rate more accurately is to understand how many of the aforementioned vulnerable people we have in the UK as of course that number isn't equal to those who aren't as vulnerable so a general percentage vs population count is unreliable.

But even with the idea of how many vulnerable people we have, it's impossible to predict how many of those are likely to contract the disease, and even more impossible to have an idea of how many will die from it.

Then of course the above is all based on death. There will be plenty more who won't die but will be in a seriously poor condition. So these figures don't even take into consideration the true effect on the NHS as many people will contract the disease, not die, but be incredibly sick.

As I said, bare complicated innit bro.

 

[Blue Maniac]

3.5% worldwide, currently 2% in the UK.

But these figures are skewered.

Well if everyone’s getting sick we might as well have a kebab.

 

[ThaiSweetChilli]

According to today's daily express 8 million of us are going to end up in hospital. Quite how this works when the NHS only has 200,000 beds is hard to see.

Even if this is the case, the media need to instill a sense of calm, not mayhem. The media are extremely powerful and people will believe anything they read. It's frightening as ****.

The papers print bold headlines, people panic, panic buy, crime increases as people get more desperate. Theft increases, more police and emergency services are thus needed.

Schools closed. Parents can't go to work. Less income. Difficult to pay mortgages and financial commitments and merely live. Poverty. Government benefits.

Businesses close, some of which are just about afloat, then they shut for a month and can't handle the loss if business so they have shut permanently. More job losses. This goes for large businesses too like the airlines.

Borders close, imports lessen, vital overseas meds stop. People left without meds and more stress on the NHS.

It all sounds a bit drastic but that's what is seriously possible when people are made to panic.

Society likes to think it's all civil but when shit hits the fan, humans can become horrible. Everyone likes to believe they'd be "one of the good ones" but it's highly unlikely. Most just look out for themselves.

 

[FOX Franks]

Even if this is the case, the media need to instill a sense of calm, not mayhem. The media are extremely powerful and people will believe anything they read. It's frightening as ****.

The papers print bold headlines, people panic, panic buy, crime increases as people get more desperate. Theft increases, more police and emergency services are thus needed.

Schools closed. Parents can't go to work. Less income. Difficult to pay mortgages and financial commitments and merely live. Poverty. Government benefits.

Businesses close, some of which are just about afloat, then they shut for a month and can't handle the loss if business so they have shut permanently. More job losses. This goes for large businesses too like the airlines.

Borders close, imports lessen, vital overseas meds stop. People left without meds and more stress on the NHS.

It all sounds a bit drastic but that's what is seriously possible when people are made to panic.

Society likes to think it's all civil but when shit hits the fan, humans can become horrible. Everyone likes to believe they'd be "one of the good ones" but it's highly unlikely. Most just look out for themselves.

Seconded on the media thing. I got some petrol the other day and the doom mongering is rife. The sun had "DO OUR BABIES NOW HAVE CORONAVIRUS" emblazoned in massive letters.
Murdoch and everyone who works for him. ugh.

 

[camberwell fox]

that article is about the best piece of digital media I’ve seen in ages. Lays it all bare in a way that makes visual sense.

it’s conclusion? Go home and stay away from each other for a bit.

Yeah, like 4 months, great idea.

 

[Payne74]

Even if this is the case, the media need to instill a sense of calm, not mayhem. The media are extremely powerful and people will believe anything they read. It's frightening as ****.

The papers print bold headlines, people panic, panic buy, crime increases as people get more desperate. Theft increases, more police and emergency services are thus needed.

Schools closed. Parents can't go to work. Less income. Difficult to pay mortgages and financial commitments and merely live. Poverty. Government benefits.

Businesses close, some of which are just about afloat, then they shut for a month and can't handle the loss if business so they have shut permanently. More job losses. This goes for large businesses too like the airlines.

Borders close, imports lessen, vital overseas meds stop. People left without meds and more stress on the NHS.

It all sounds a bit drastic but that's what is seriously possible when people are made to panic.

Society likes to think it's all civil but when shit hits the fan, humans can become horrible. Everyone likes to believe they'd be "one of the good ones" but it's highly unlikely. Most just look out for themselves.

Just watch Mad Max but replace "Fuel" with "Toilet Roll"

 

[Miles Away]

Yeah, like 4 months, great idea.

or let more people die than need to. Simple choice.

 

[ThaiSweetChilli]

I didn't know Tommy Robinson was a member of this forum.

Not the villain he's made out to be - seriously. Still a bit of a nonce though.

that article is about the best piece of digital media I’ve seen in ages. Lays it all bare in a way that makes visual sense.

it’s conclusion? Go home and stay away from each other for a bit.

Amazing.

 

[ThaiSweetChilli]

or let more people die than need to. Simple choice.

Basically you mean abandoning the elderly/vulnerable!!!