Deeper in debt

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newtonfox said:
Aye i agree BG it is stealing .

And the fact you took it is to your credit IMO
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Indeed. But the fact that you're still here, supporting the club (even if you claim not to - you obviously do) kind of proves the point you were arguing against BG, in that people do take significant financial hits and still keep coming back to football...
 
DesertFox said:
Indeed. But the fact that you're still here, supporting the club (even if you claim not to - you obviously do) kind of proves the point you were arguing against BG, in that people do take significant financial hits and still keep coming back to football...
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you do talk some utter bollocks DF.
 
Dour said:
Well, MM has probably 'pumped' £3.5 million into the club, as in invested in it, and may have lent the club another £7.5 million. I'll call up a copy of the accounts soon and see what's in them.
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For those few who might be remotely interested in this, I did take a look at the accounts today. Since it runs up to May 2007, there is not much drama in there. The only real things of note are that there is still no evidence of this mysterious 'black hole' that was being talked up prior to the takeover and I see no reason why anyone would suggest that the club was in imminent danger of falling into administration, although the existing arrangements were obviously unsustainable.

Milan did invest £4.3 million, with another £4.5 to come by the end of this May. Any difference between that £8.8 and the £11 million being talked about will either be as imaginary as the £25 million deal, or increasing the debt. Which, because of the equity put in, looks bad, but not horrendous. Milan hasn't bankrupted us yet and if Milan is planning on selling up in the summer, I'd have thought the club is still saleable at a price that returns what he's paid.
 
Dour said:
For those few who might be remotely interested in this, I did take a look at the accounts today. Since it runs up to May 2007, there is not much drama in there. The only real things of note are that there is still no evidence of this mysterious 'black hole' that was being talked up prior to the takeover and I see no reason why anyone would suggest that the club was in imminent danger of falling into administration, although the existing arrangements were obviously unsustainable.

Milan did invest £4.3 million, with another £4.5 to come by the end of this May. Any difference between that £8.8 and the £11 million being talked about will either be as imaginary as the £25 million deal, or increasing the debt. Which, because of the equity put in, looks bad, but not horrendous. Milan hasn't bankrupted us yet and if Milan is planning on selling up in the summer, I'd have thought the club is still saleable at a price that returns what he's paid.
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Oh dear, being factual about LCFC finances - you'll be in trouble now.:icon_wink
 
Dour said:
For those few who might be remotely interested in this, I did take a look at the accounts today. Since it runs up to May 2007, there is not much drama in there. The only real things of note are that there is still no evidence of this mysterious 'black hole' that was being talked up prior to the takeover and I see no reason why anyone would suggest that the club was in imminent danger of falling into administration, although the existing arrangements were obviously unsustainable.

Milan did invest £4.3 million, with another £4.5 to come by the end of this May. Any difference between that £8.8 and the £11 million being talked about will either be as imaginary as the £25 million deal, or increasing the debt. Which, because of the equity put in, looks bad, but not horrendous. Milan hasn't bankrupted us yet and if Milan is planning on selling up in the summer, I'd have thought the club is still saleable at a price that returns what he's paid.
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At the Trust AGM, Milan confirmed that of the £11m quoted in the papers that £4.5m was his initial investment (so included in the May 07 accounts) and the other £4.5m equity investment, due to be invested by 31st May 08 (as Dour says above), but had to be put in earlier for cash flow reasons.

That would suggest based on the "reported" figures that a further £2m as a loan (based on track record at Pompey) but this wasn't confirmed.
 
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Dour said:
I see no reason why anyone would suggest that the club was in imminent danger of falling into administration, although the existing arrangements were obviously unsustainable.
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Do you recall how cash strapped the club was in the period before Mandaric took over?

There was no scope for manoeuvre whatsoever.

You are probably right when you say that there was no "imminent" danger of the club falling into administration. But you are creating and then knocking down your own false agenda by mentioning such a ruse.

The real issue was a different one. That is that under the previous totally feeble regime, the club was immersed a slow decline to administration/ downsizing or whatever - rather than an imminent one.The only parties who seemed to be enjoying that era were those like the Foxes Trust i.e. who who I have to assume were pleased to feel that they had some ownership and influence irrespective of that decline.

Mandaric brought some hope. Regretably, very poor decisions on footballing related issues, including rank, poor football management and decisions on player acquisitions have wrecked those aspirations and my gut feeling is that he will walk away as a result of these failures. Unfortunately, I think you are leading people up the garden path by inferring that things will improve if he goes.
 
Redditch Fox said:
You are probably right when you say that there was no "imminent" danger of the club falling into administration. But you are creating and then knocking down your own false agenda by mentioning such a ruse.
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What false agenda would that be then? I'm not sure I see one in pointing out that the people who say that, if Mandaric hadn't taken over, the club would have gone into admin, were and are wrong?

Mandaric brought some hope. Regretably, very poor decisions on footballing related issues, including rank, poor football management and decisions on player acquisitions have wrecked those aspirations and my gut feeling is that he will walk away as a result of these failures. Unfortunately, I think you are leading people up the garden path by inferring that things will improve if he goes.
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How am I inferring that things will improve? All I've done is merely point out that the debt isn't unmanageable yet and that the club is probably still saleable.
 
Dour said:
What false agenda would that be then? I'm not sure I see one in pointing out that the people who say that, if Mandaric hadn't taken over, the club would have gone into admin, were and are wrong?

How am I inferring that things will improve? All I've done is merely point out that the debt isn't unmanageable yet and that the club is probably still saleable.
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The false agenda is that you seem to be implying that people were claining that the club was in imminent danger of going back into administration prior to the Mandaric takeover.

Your comments read to me as near to propaganda that if Mandaric sells up that the financial position of the club will be ok.

The context is that last time round (events leading to the Mandaric takeover) we had all the nudges and nuances that there were other parties willing to invest big time in Leicester City. Full credit to the parties - including the Foxes Trust - who saved the club when it had previously gone into Administration. However, since Administration, when it came to serious investment and underwriting, it has not proved possible to get a commitment from 'local' business interests. Without naming individual people, this is not meant to detract from the money put in by people in the past.

As I see it Mandaric has ensured that resources are available which if they had been well used would have put us in a very competitive position in this division with the potential for hitting the jackpot of a return to the Premiership. Sadly, the resources have been frittered away.
 
Redditch Fox said:
The false agenda is that you seem to be implying that people were claining that the club was in imminent danger of going back into administration prior to the Mandaric takeover.
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:102: People have claimed this. How is it a false agenda?

Your comments read to me as near to propaganda that if Mandaric sells up that the financial position of the club will be ok.
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:102: "debt looks bad but not horrendous" "debt isn't unmanageable yet" I have no ****ing idea as to how you would read that as propaganda, particularly not propaganda that the financial position would be OK.
 
One previous board member, whom I know, was extremely concerned that the club were on a very precarious slide financially. He was sure MM was a saviour, at the time.
 
alex said:
One previous board member, whom I know, was extremely concerned that the club were on a very precarious slide financially. He was sure MM was a saviour, at the time.
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I think that much is clear - the club was making a loss of £5 million or so. Either new investment or radical cost cutting were the only options.
 
Dour said:
:102: People have claimed this. How is it a false agenda?



:102: "debt looks bad but not horrendous" "debt isn't unmanageable yet" I have no ****ing idea as to how you would read that as propaganda, particularly not propaganda that the financial position would be OK.
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I do regard it as ....ing propaganda and I'm quite certain you know why.

However, your perspectives are always informed and interesting. It's just that I think you are coming from a position which would support returning us to the previous type of feeble regimes.

Mandaric makes big errors of judgement but he makes life interesting at The Walkers. And I prefer it that way.
 
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