Protests in the US

[popillius]

Some of the world’s greatest strides forward have come in the wake of protest, riots, and destruction. You think the US got rid of segregation by MLK saying “I have a dream”? Sometimes shit needs ****ing up. US police departments are little more than militarised gangs legitimised by their uniforms and excused for murder after murder after murder, almost all of which committed against black men. It boggles my mind how comfortable some white people are with instructing black people how they may or may not respond to the constant threat of racist violence.

Perfect. History tells us that rioting and protesting, as horrible as I can be at times, can and often does work to change society for the better.

 

[Miles Away]

Ok. A few thoughts:

If you focus on the main issue here, a racist cop used his power to murder a black man. It is an obvious enough case if you read/watch what took place and I hope the sick bastard goes to prison for a long time. If you cannot condemn that for what it is, you're being deliberately ignorant.

Indeed. His 3 accomplices too.

However, we've already seen more people die as a result of the protests than George Floyd. The homes/businesses of many white and black people have been ruined. Even pleas from the victims family have not stopped the left/right rent-a-mobs from their self-indulgent disorder.

Whew...this is a lot:

Do you have any reporting or data that speaks specifically to how many people have died as a result of the current protests (and don't give me the COVID-19 line, because that wasn't your point)?

Further, your key mistake here is viewing these protests through the lens of this specific case. There have been dozens of examples of police murdering black people in the last few years. There is a startling lack of accountability in these cases. These protests are a reaction to systemic racism and overt and unchecked white supremacy in the police force. Many have tried to address this issue in "peaceful" ways, while all the while the funding and militarization of the police force has ballooned and with it incidents of violent incidents involving the police.


Angry protest, looting, fighting, screaming abuse at cops or army or politicians will achieve absolutely nothing other than to entrench views and tensions. Nobody in a position of authority changes their mind by being threatened/abused.

The vast amount of violence and aggression we are seeing is started by the police force and military. I'm still gobsmacked that anyone can watch heavily-armed and fortified goons firing pepper balls, smoke bombs and tear gas into a crowd of people and think, somehow, that response is appropriate, and worse, worthy of support.

This is all to say nothing of the absolutely terrifying spread of police and military removing identifying marks like regiment, police badges, body cameras. Over 100 journalists have been attacked by police and/or military. Trump had his goons fire tear gas into a peaceful protest to clear a lane so he could go and have his picture taken at a church....

This is late stage fascism.

I'll point you to this thread which has been documenting the hundreds of cases of excessive police force. I've picked out one I found particularly disgusting (example 111)-



I respect you in many regards, BN, but be rest assured you are on the wrong side of history here.

 

[Brown Nose]

Some of the world’s greatest strides forward have come in the wake of protest, riots, and destruction. You think the US got rid of segregation by MLK saying “I have a dream”? Sometimes shit needs ****ing up. US police departments are little more than militarised gangs legitimised by their uniforms and excused for murder after murder after murder, almost all of which committed against black men. It boggles my mind how comfortable some white people are with instructing black people how they may or may not respond to the constant threat of racist violence.

Protest, yes. Totally agree. Peaceful protest is a highly effective way of creating change. Riots and destruction are not the way forward. Yes, they can rattle the rich and powerful, but they'll always come down on it. They have to. Are you advocating smashing up cities and beating up people?

Why are US police like militarised gangs? What has created that culture? Who has created that culture? I'd say it is only by addressing those questions calmly and rationally that progress can be made and a consensus for progress can be achieved.

Pitching left against right, black against white, believing 'you' are right and 'they' are wrong is utterly futile. You only have to look at many modern societies today to see that surely?

Why is the best way to address a society with a deep seated racism issue to give one race the freedom to do whatever they deem to be acceptable? Surely you can see that won't work out well. Whether it is legitimising racism in its police or violence from its minorities. A black president did **** all about it in eight years. The current president was partly voted in as a reaction to him. It's way more complex than you're suggesting. White people self-flaggellating themselves won't achieve anything. It's virtue signalling and the very people whose minds need changing will react completely opposite to how you want them to.

 

[Miles Away]

Like I said, fascists:

 

[FOX Franks]

Like I said, fascists:

Hoooly shit that absolutely horrendous. Police in America needs dismantling and rebuilding completely doesn’t it

 

[Volpone]

Isn't it time all these posts were moved to a general chat thread? That's what was done with corona virus posts.

 

[Brown Nose]

Like I said, fascists:

I have huge respect for you too MA. But this is not fascism. It is a panicked and poorly trained police force acting out.

There are proportionately more black police officers than black population. There are proportionately more black armed forces than black population. How can that be 'late stage fascism'?

The US is a democratic country. You elect your leaders fairly. That is not fascism.

If the reaction to Floyd's murder had been entirely peaceful, much of this wouldn't be happening. I could post multiple videos of idiots destroying property and beating up people. I could also post multiple videos of police and armed forces doing brilliant work to calm tensions. But people only want to see what fits their narrative.

The angry people in the US are entirely free to protest peacefully and elect better leaders. That is the opposite of fascism.

 

[Matt_B]

I have huge respect for you too MA. But this is not fascism. It is a panicked and poorly trained police force acting out.

There are proportionately more black police officers than black population. There are proportionately more black armed forces than black population. How can that be 'late stage fascism'?

The US is a democratic country. You elect your leaders fairly. That is not fascism.

If the reaction to Floyd's murder had been entirely peaceful, much of this wouldn't be happening. I could post multiple videos of idiots destroying property and beating up people. I could also post multiple videos of police and armed forces doing brilliant work to calm tensions. But people only want to see what fits their narrative.

The angry people in the US are entirely free to protest peacefully and elect better leaders. That is the opposite of fascism.

I think the point is that Trump's rule is fascist.

Opinion: As an expert on fascism, I know what Trump's actions this week look like

For a long time, I avoided using the word, instead preferring 'narcissist' or 'plutocrat'. But this week it became clear I was wrong

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Blue Maniac]

The US is a democratic country. You elect your leaders fairly. That is not fascism.

Waaaaait a second...

 

[Miles Away]

I have huge respect for you too MA. But this is not fascism. It is a panicked and poorly trained police force acting out.

There are proportionately more black police officers than black population. There are proportionately more black armed forces than black population. How can that be 'late stage fascism'?

The US is a democratic country. You elect your leaders fairly. That is not fascism.

If the reaction to Floyd's murder had been entirely peaceful, much of this wouldn't be happening. I could post multiple videos of idiots destroying property and beating up people. I could also post multiple videos of police and armed forces doing brilliant work to calm tensions. But people only want to see what fits their narrative.

The angry people in the US are entirely free to protest peacefully and elect better leaders. That is the opposite of fascism.

There is overwhelming evidence that there was corruption in the 2016 election. The last Republican President also “won” under very dubious circumstances. Do you think elections in Russia, or the Philippines are “fair”?

And mark my words here and now: there won’t be an election in November and if there is it will be so overwhelmed with violence and initimidation that no one will be able to call it fair. Even if, through some miracle, the election goes ahead and Trump does lose he will not leave peacefully.

You must, too, be aware that many fascists rise to power through an electoral process before then dismantling the system from within.What is happening in the US is textbook 101 strongman stuff.

I’m struggling to circle up the logic of “if people angry about police brutality would just behave then we wouldn’t have to deploy police brutality”.

And these protests are working in the short term:

1. the four officers involved in the death of George Floyd have, finally, been arrested

2. The Breonna Taylor case (who was shot 8 times in her own bed as police entered her home without a warrant) has been reopened

3. The Ahmaud Arbery case has seen massive progress through the legal system after the murderers initially walked freely for weeks (everybody should watch that video, it is terrifying)

4. The Buffalo PD initially reported the video above as “a protestor tripped and fell”...since the video emerged they have been forced to suspend multiple officers and open an external investigation.

I’m confident that these protests are directly linked to the accountability of these crimes.

And not that it really matters, but these protests are largely peaceful. The early looting and chaos has given way to organization and collective accountability of those involved. The cops are still unfurling mass violence.

Please, please trust me when I tell you that the US is on the precipice of a slide into total authoritarianism. It may feel far away, but this will be on everyone’s doorstep soon.

I’m sorry if I sound like a conspiratorial loon, I certainly hope I’m nothing more than that.

 

[Brown Nose]

There is overwhelming evidence that there was corruption in the 2016 election. The last Republican President also “won” under very dubious circumstances. Do you think elections in Russia, or the Philippines are “fair”?

And mark my words here and now: there won’t be an election in November and if there is it will be so overwhelmed with violence and initimidation that no one will be able to call it fair. Even if, through some miracle, the election goes ahead and Trump does lose he will not leave peacefully.

You must, too, be aware that many fascists rise to power through an electoral process before then dismantling the system from within.What is happening in the US is textbook 101 strongman stuff.

I’m struggling to circle up the logic of “if people angry about police brutality would just behave then we wouldn’t have to deploy police brutality”.

And these protests are working in the short term:

1. the four officers involved in the death of George Floyd have, finally, been arrested

2. The Breonna Taylor case (who was shot 8 times in her own bed as police entered her home without a warrant) has been reopened

3. The Ahmaud Arbery case has seen massive progress through the legal system after the murderers initially walked freely for weeks (everybody should watch that video, it is terrifying)

4. The Buffalo PD initially reported the video above as “a protestor tripped and fell”...since the video emerged they have been forced to suspend multiple officers and open an external investigation.

I’m confident that these protests are directly linked to the accountability of these crimes.

And not that it really matters, but these protests are largely peaceful. The early looting and chaos has given way to organization and collective accountability of those involved. The cops are still unfurling mass violence.

Please, please trust me when I tell you that the US is on the precipice of a slide into total authoritarianism. It may feel far away, but this will be on everyone’s doorstep soon.

I’m sorry if I sound like a conspiratorial loon, I certainly hope I’m nothing more than that.

Okay MA, it's your country and your reality so I won't push it any further. You know how what is happening makes you feel and I respect that.

I truly believe that your fears are exaggerated by the shit show you've been living through since the man-baby took office. I don't believe that he and his cronies are smart enough to be doing what you think he is.

If he loses in November, I bet there are thousands of politicians, military and police officers who will gladly drag his ass out of the Oval Office.

 

[Blue Maniac]

Please, please trust me when I tell you that the US is on the precipice of a slide into total authoritarianism. It may feel far away, but this will be on everyone’s doorstep soon.

I’m sorry if I sound like a conspiratorial loon, I certainly hope I’m nothing more than that.

Under ordinary circumstances this would sound like the rantings of a Michael Moore, but in post-2016 America it’s completely rational. Every significant action Trump has undertaken since he‘s been in office has been either hypocritical, unlawful, unconstitutional, racist, sexist, corrupt, self-enriching, or some combination thereof. Almost every sentence that falls out of his head contains some misinformation, usually intentionally. He’s spent three and a half years consolidating his power, stealing, belittling, threatening, attending rallies with the cult he’s created, and playing endless rounds of golf. He doesn’t want to be President, he wants to be Führer.

 

[Miles Away]

Okay MA, it's your country and your reality so I won't push it any further. You know how what is happening makes you feel and I respect that.

I truly believe that your fears are exaggerated by the shit show you've been living through since the man-baby took office. I don't believe that he and his cronies are smart enough to be doing what you think he is.

If he loses in November, I bet there are thousands of politicians, military and police officers who will gladly drag his ass out of the Oval Office.

I certainly hope you are right.

 

[tedfoxxx]

Under ordinary circumstances this would sound like the rantings of a Michael Moore, but in post-2016 America it’s completely rational. Every significant action Trump has undertaken since he‘s been in office has been either hypocritical, unlawful, unconstitutional, racist, sexist, corrupt, self-enriching, or some combination thereof. Almost every sentence that falls out of his head contains some misinformation, usually intentionally. He’s spent three and a half years consolidating his power, stealing, belittling, threatening, attending rallies with the cult he’s created, and playing endless rounds of golf. He doesn’t want to be President, he wants to be Führer.

His ‘I am your President of law and order’ line the other day was chilling.

 

[Robin127]

Hey Miles are you a citizen or like me just a green card holder?

 

[Brown Nose]

I certainly hope you are right.

How about this for a pretty perfect example of an idiot at work and not someone hell bent on world domination. He's a fool, not a Fuhrer.

 

[Lako42]

He is merely the puppet. Donald Trump is the perfect mouth piece for the establishment who don't want equality in the US. There is a group of people who stand to lose out from equality for the black community, simple as that.

There are bigger things at play in the background, bigger people and bigger intellects than that complete moron has to offer. They are quite happy for him to take the flack and for everyone to think that it can't possibly be an orchestrated effort by the establishment.

Donald Trump is the thickest wool to pull over the eyes of the people that the powers that be have ever had.

 

[Miles Away]

There are some specific names to keep and eye on and research:

William Barr
Stephen Miller
Tom Cotton
Mitch McConnell
Steve Bannon

there are others but these are a good place to start when trying to understand the sedition surrounding the Trump administration.

 

[Blue Maniac]

How about this for a pretty perfect example of an idiot at work and not someone hell bent on world domination. He's a fool, not a Fuhrer.

Nobody’s denying he’s an idiot. Like Lako says, he’s not the real boss, but in his tiny misfiring brain he is. See, he ran as the “anti-establishment” candidate, and what’s more anti-establishment than an old white man who’s been a multimillionaire since the day his mother shat him out? Well, literally every other thing on this earth and all its infinite parallels, but that’s the opposite world we now live in. He thinks he’s a man of the people, and he isn’t. They think he speaks for them and tells the truth, and he’s never done either. He thinks he’s a genius but he’s actually a lettuce. Nothing is true any more. Facts don’t matter.

 

[Robin127]

William Barr the man who has allowed the office he represents to be used as a political tool for the first time in nearly fifty years.

Stephen Miller, rather ironic his white supremacist/fascist leanings considering his religion. He is a thoroughly nasty piece of work.

Tom Cotton, ditto the last sentence about Miller.

Mitch McConnell the rather lovely senator for the state in which I live. The man who said when he became leader of the senate that his most important job was stopping Obama from being re-elected, to hell with actually helping govern the country. He has around 3-400 bills passed by congress sitting on his desk but won't put them to a vote as he is too busy stacking the courts with conservative judges who look more favourably on the gerrymandering that occurs in many states. The epitomy of the swamp that Trump was supposed to drain.

Steve Bannon, the man whose goal is to populate the world with right wing nationalistic governments.