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Puel out

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Feriol

Well-Known Member
Our counter attacking style had been found out, so I approve of the attempt to change our style. Possession football is perhaps more robust. It's definitely less exciting but we are competitive in more games than we were under the end of Ranieri and Shakespeare, and have even dominated a few games.

Looking at the shots stats of recent games suggests we are creating a reasonable number of chances. While the quality of many of those opportunities stretches the definition of 'chance' it does show that we are getting into the final third, just lacking quality. I don't think we are too far away and am prepared to give Puel time to complete the puzzle.
 

artic fox

Member
Nonsense. Morgan has done nothing at all wrong since he came back and although I was an advocate for Dragovic keeping his place, the fact that Morgan has replaced him and been absolutely fine has nothing whatsoever to do with out massive lack of creativity. As for Iborra, his first two games for us were beyond dreadful and his last two games for us were even worse. He has had a couple of decent performances in between but he isn't the spark we are missing because he's not that type of player. It is the way we are setting up and approaching games and as others have pointed out, the constant isolation of Vardy. You can't 'adapt' to anything when you're not seeing the ball because the midfield are creating nothing and nobody is playing that link up role like Okazaki does.
Morgan was badly at fault for Stokes Goal last week,he backed off rather than close down shakeri ... Wes is not untouchable when it comes to losing his place,nor should he be! Does Puel really know what way he wants us to approach a game,and if so is plan B hoof the ball up to Vardy? We have quality in that squad but do we have a Manager with other players on his mind come the Summer?
 

looney

Member
I can’t work out how Puel has gone from the performances against spurs and southampton to the recent garbage . I think the performances are worse than Shakespeare’s now, and worse I don’t think the players are playing for puel and the team spirit has gone. Having said that even with those performances, a little more clinical and we have beaten stoke and Bournemouth. Makes little sense to change now when we should be safe, but unless there is a dramatic upturn in performance and attitude he needs to go end of season
 

Brown Nose

Well-Known Member
I can only see two rational scenarios from here.

1. That Puel was brought in to completely change the squad, style of play, average age, etc. If this was a deliberate plan that Puel won the owners over to in his interview, his approach makes some sense. He knows we're safe so he's giving players opportunities to prove their value. In this possibility, style of play and short term results are secondary to preparing us for a massive overhaul of players this summer.

2. He's just another manager that got the gig in the absence of interesting alternatives and is caretaking us to safety before being jettisoned. His record at Southampton and here suggests that he does enough as a safe pair of hands. He's pretty much a French version of Pulis. It's all terribly dull but just about effective enough.

If he stays I think that there will be a mass exodus of players this summer. As well as the obvious Mahrez, I'd fully expect Vardy to want out, as well as possibly Maguire, Ndidi and Schmeichel. Several others will be lost due to their age and inability to pass the ball well enough. We will recruit lots of young, technically capable players who we will hope will initiate a new era of tippy tappy.

If he goes, our next choice will be fascinating. The temptation to go back to what the owners know (Ranieri or Pearson) will be potentially overwhelming.
 

bloo

Active Member
Looking at the shots stats of recent games suggests we are creating a reasonable number of chances. While the quality of many of those opportunities stretches the definition of 'chance' it does show that we are getting into the final third, just lacking quality. I don't think we are too far away and am prepared to give Puel time to complete the puzzle.
I applaud your optimism Feriol and I hope you are right, I really do. At the moment, I'm at a loss to understand or explain what's going on. Not that I expect myself to do either, I'm only a 'know nothing' fan.

BN's scenarios above are interesting, I could buy into either (that's how adrift I am at the moment!) That said, I'm not sure we're safe as such (scenario 1) - there's still a deal of dosh to play for. I'm not sure the club will want to throw that away. Dunno though, maybe Puel presented a solid business case for short term failure.

All I can say, from my perspective, is that I don't think a root and branch regeneration (and a player exodus in the summer) makes sense. To use the cliche, it's throwing the baby out with the bath water. Didn't Sven try something similar?
 

pork pie fox

Well-Known Member
I can only see two rational scenarios from here.

1. That Puel was brought in to completely change the squad, style of play, average age, etc. If this was a deliberate plan that Puel won the owners over to in his interview, his approach makes some sense. He knows we're safe so he's giving players opportunities to prove their value. In this possibility, style of play and short term results are secondary to preparing us for a massive overhaul of players this summer.

2. He's just another manager that got the gig in the absence of interesting alternatives and is caretaking us to safety before being jettisoned. His record at Southampton and here suggests that he does enough as a safe pair of hands. He's pretty much a French version of Pulis. It's all terribly dull but just about effective enough.

If he stays I think that there will be a mass exodus of players this summer. As well as the obvious Mahrez, I'd fully expect Vardy to want out, as well as possibly Maguire, Ndidi and Schmeichel. Several others will be lost due to their age and inability to pass the ball well enough. We will recruit lots of young, technically capable players who we will hope will initiate a new era of tippy tappy.

If he goes, our next choice will be fascinating. The temptation to go back to what the owners know (Ranieri or Pearson) will be potentially overwhelming.
I agree with all of that.

I’ve said before, on here, that I’d like Brendan Rodgers to be given the job. I appreciate many people disagree with me on this, however, this is the best I could come up with when I was trying to think of someone who is:
a) A realistic target - I can see him feeling that he’s achieved all he can at Celtic.
b) Known for his teams playing attractive football
c) a big enough name in the game (particularly having managed Liverpool) as to suggest we want to go places

As I say, I realise many people don’t think the same, but he’s been my suggestion for the past couple of times that our job has been available.
 

pork pie fox

Well-Known Member
All I can say, from my perspective, is that I don't think a root and branch regeneration (and a player exodus in the summer) makes sense. To use the cliche, it's throwing the baby out with the bath water. Didn't Sven try something similar?
I don’t think BN is suggesting it’s sensible, just that he can see players wanting to leave. Obviously, as a result, our bigger named players would be most in demand.

I could have that wrong, though.
 

Leigh

Well-Known Member
Does anyone feel we are lacking a bit of leadership from the owners? Not to knock them - we are building a new training facility, have set up that Belgan club etc. so clearly they are still committed but I am not sure what their short-to-medium term plans/goals are for the team. Do they see it as ok to have a few 'average' Prem seasons while we build up our academy/brand or do they want success now with this squad? As mentioned above the first option is likely to see many of our quality players leaving and seems risky to me.

When we were having turgid seasons in the Championship I could take it because we had no quality players. Now we have quality and players who can still achieve more in their careers and we are not playing to their strengths. (Mahrez aside who I think Puel has done a good job with - but if we are planning for the future then why focus on Riyad who won't be here).

As we will not go down I'm saying keep Puel for now... but I'm not adverse to getting rid before the end of the season if this continues. Keep him until summer and the damage with the likes of Vardy will already have been done.
 

Blue Maniac

Alzheimers sufferer
I’m honestly fed up of us sacking anyone who isn’t Pearson after a handful of disappointing results. Is stability not even a word these days? Are we seriously writing off a manager less than five months into the job, a man who didn’t even start the current season at the club?

Ranieri couldn’t get them winning last season even with the benefit of a post-title summer. Shakespeare couldn’t this season, and was hoofed after his summer window closed.

Look at the squad he left. The title-winning squad minus the two midfielders who made everything tick, the already elderly defence another year older and slower, a winger on another planet in terms of both talent and ambition desperate to see his ability rewarded with its true worth and, therefore, to leave. An often-solid goalkeeper but with well-known shortcomings and yet no realistic threat to his place in the team. Kante and Drinkwater replaced with cheaper and inferior models. Plus strikers, signed at great expense, who evidently couldn’t score.

Was Puel, coming through the door to an overhyped, overpriced, underachieving squad, then expected to work some Clough-level miracle and turn shit left by others into diamonds? Was he somehow supposed to control the Mahrez effect? Should he have implored the club to panic buy a £30-40 million player in January just to give the team a marginally better chance at qualification for the European competition nobody even watches? Maybe two?

What are we aiming for? Should we be top six with this team? Top four? Is entertainment the key? Don’t care how many goals each team scores as long as we have eleven performing seals out there every week?
 

bloo

Active Member
Was Puel, coming through the door to an overhyped, overpriced, underachieving squad, then expected to work some Clough-level miracle and turn shit left by others into diamonds?
No. But then neither was he to seemingly take us backwards. If that is what he has done... and I genuinely don't know if he has but it's kind of looking like that at the moment.
 

Feriol

Well-Known Member
All I can say, from my perspective, is that I don't think a root and branch regeneration (and a player exodus in the summer) makes sense. To use the cliche, it's throwing the baby out with the bath water. Didn't Sven try something similar?
Between the need to change our style of play, ageing players, inadequate squad players, the rubbish bought in recent transfer windows, and players being poached I think a regeneration of the squad has been overdue, and would soon have been forced on us anyway. I Do feel that with Puel we are in control of how and when this happens.

He has ensured our safety this season, given our young players a chance, he has moved on much of the deadwood and has begun to change our playing style, all progress IMO, and in a relatively short space of time and without any big risks being taken.

Yes there is still work to be done, but it seems to me that Puel knows exactly what has to be done, and is making good progress toward it. Sure I would like our football to be more entertaining now, but Puel is looking at a bigger picture.
 

Brown Nose

Well-Known Member
I’m honestly fed up of us sacking anyone who isn’t Pearson after a handful of disappointing results. Is stability not even a word these days? Are we seriously writing off a manager less than five months into the job, a man who didn’t even start the current season at the club?

Ranieri couldn’t get them winning last season even with the benefit of a post-title summer. Shakespeare couldn’t this season, and was hoofed after his summer window closed.

Look at the squad he left. The title-winning squad minus the two midfielders who made everything tick, the already elderly defence another year older and slower, a winger on another planet in terms of both talent and ambition desperate to see his ability rewarded with its true worth and, therefore, to leave. An often-solid goalkeeper but with well-known shortcomings and yet no realistic threat to his place in the team. Kante and Drinkwater replaced with cheaper and inferior models. Plus strikers, signed at great expense, who evidently couldn’t score.

Was Puel, coming through the door to an overhyped, overpriced, underachieving squad, then expected to work some Clough-level miracle and turn shit left by others into diamonds? Was he somehow supposed to control the Mahrez effect? Should he have implored the club to panic buy a £30-40 million player in January just to give the team a marginally better chance at qualification for the European competition nobody even watches? Maybe two?

What are we aiming for? Should we be top six with this team? Top four? Is entertainment the key? Don’t care how many goals each team scores as long as we have eleven performing seals out there every week?
We have nine title winners plus over £100m of additions. We have a budget and intent from the owners that means we need to be alongside or just behind the top six.

Truth is, we're miles behind the top six this season. We're two excellent performers away from being relegation fodder. Only Vardy and Mahrez have scored for us in the Premier League since New Years Day.

Going into this season with Shakespeare was very stupid. Recruiting Puel was odd to say the least but we seemingly had few other ideas.

Chasing down Arsenal and looking like we're genuinely a cut above the likes of Bournemouth is the level. Puel is demonstrating no capability whatsoever at getting us to this level. I think he has got all the tools required for this but is mis-managing them.

Unless, as I said above, that his remit is a total rebuild this summer and everybody is playing towards this.
 

LeeCovFox

Well-Known Member
Is entertainment not the whole point? Why are we watching football otherwise? I don’t care that much where we finish. I just want it to be fun. It might just be that we are in shit form. Fine. But if it’s more than just form and the current style is going to stay then we’re all wasting our money, aren’t we?

As for stability, there is very limited evidence that stability breeds success. It’s more often the case that success breeds stability. If I’m good at my job I’ll get a long crack at it. If I’m shit then as soon as that is apparent somebody will be having a word and if I don’t sort it then conversations about an exit strategy for both parties will begin.
 

David Gwilliam

Well-Known Member
He's had plenty of time.
.
I realise that this was posted in the aftermath of the match when emotions can overcome judgement. However, BN I trust that in the cold light of a Sunday morning you are embarrassed by that sentence.

LeeCovFox criticism is not silly. He wants entertaining football even if that means losing games. It is a valid point of view but not one I share. More importantly I doubt if the Thais share it. I want to win fairly after a hard fought contest. For me the struggle is the point of sport and the entertainment comes from that struggle.

Under Pearson, Ranieri and Shakespeare we flirted with relegation to the Championship. I would guess that the Thais gave Puel the mandate of keeping us in the Premier League. In that he has been very successful.

Unlike BN I do not regard six months as a long time. I prefer decades. The 2010s are a great deal better than the previous decade. We are 8th in the Premier League and have for some time been the best team in the Midlands. Thank you Claude for your part in a golden period in the clubs history.
 
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