Student Power

[drummindefender]

There are other 'top academic nations' besides the US. Canada and Australia also charge fairly high fees but almost everywhere else is way cheaper. Finland is often cited as the 'top academic nation' yet university education there is free.

****ing students. You'd have thought that since they're paying for an education they might have learnt something - even if it's only to check their facts.

Firstly, you wrongly read my post to interpret it as saying only the UK and US are top academic nations. I was just pointing out that THE top academic nation (the US) charges a lot more than we do, especially the private ones

Second you have a go at me for not doing any research, yet you clearly haven't done any yourself. Look at these league tables

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2010-2011/top-200.html

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2010/results


The US clearly dominates both tables. And as for Finland, well it has one University in both lists (University of Helsinki ranked 102nd 75th respectively). Hardly indicative of your claims.

Which attitudes do you mean? There's been many offered

Generally it appears to me that the majority on here feel that all students are lazy, and all degrees are worthless. Obviously a lot of them are, but it's patronising to simply state they're all the same.

How many students are going to be prepared to pay £9k a year for a course with only 8 hours a week contact time? Judging from my daughters' friends' experiences there are a fair few courses around that don't seem to be of a high standard or good value for money.

I can't argue with any of that.

 

[pork pie fox]

There are academic and athletic scholarships. Many of them funded privately, some by the universities themselves, and a few govt funded.

And the athletes are expected to get passing grades and make an attempt at a diploma. Often they turn pro before that happens. But athletic scholarships a terrific way for a less fortunate student to get a degree without gutting themselves financially.

And if you're Cam Newton (for example) you can even make money while you're there (allegedly) :icon_wink

 

[Miles Away]

And if you're Cam Newton (for example) you can even make money while you're there (allegedly) :icon_wink

Yes, Mr. Newton is in a world of trouble. Shame really, terrific talent.

 

[pork pie fox]

Yes, Mr. Newton is in a world of trouble. Shame really, terrific talent.

And, to be fair, it appears his dad has caused a lot of the problems for him. Heisman hopes out the window I guess, particularly after the Reggie Bush stuff.

 

[Dour]

Firstly, you wrongly read my post to interpret it as saying only the UK and US are top academic nations. I was just pointing out that THE top academic nation (the US) charges a lot more than we do, especially the private ones

If you had learnt to read, or even remember stuff, while you were at university, I think you'll find that you said that:

Interestingly University is still relatively cheap here in comparison to the other top Academic nations. Some of my American friends pay $40,000 a year for tuition alone!

Mebbe it's me, but I'm getting confused by your randomness here. I don't read that as pointing out that the US is THE top academic nation. Thus, in reply, I pointed out that even though Canada and Australia (which, just to help you, aren't normally considered as part of the US or the UK these days) also charge high fees, the most qualified, and thereby academic nation is Finland, where higher education is free. If you want to confuse nations with academic institutions, be my guest. Maybe you should have gone to a more expensive institution. Or been brought up in a more academic nation. Or learnt something at ****ing university.

 

[drummindefender]

Hilarious!

 

[Darth Vodka]

Maybe a different way would have been to introduce a sliding pay scale in relation to how well you do in GCSEs. If you get A's then you pay less, if you get C's and D's you pay more.

they're not called A's B's and C's now, they're called A stars, A's and B's

they devalued the A's so much that they added another layer

 

[Mawsley]

they devalued the A's so much that they added another layer

And then made the exams even easier and adjusted grade boundaries so more people could get them too.

 

[Matt_B]

Surely just cutting the number of Universities and pointless courses would help. There are some Unis that allow people with 20 Ucas points in, foundation degrees are also available to people who weren't clever enough to get in properly etc etc. A good mate of mine got a degree despite only getting 2 GCSEs, its worth **** all to him other than more debt to pay off and less work experience.

I honestly think that if you get a job that relates to your degree when you leave then your tuition should be reduced/partially refunded, and those that do courses that don't lead anywhere should pay full whack. It would cut down on pointless courses and would reward those that then go on to put back into society.

As mentioned before though, I doubt that if people who habitually claim benefits they aren't entitled to would get the same sympathy from some on here, or if Muslims decided to do the same against immigration cut backs.

Out of interest to those who support the protests, would it have still been OK if the smashed window had killed someone? The point and process would still be the same but with a different ending.

Also the minute you start saying that sometimes violent protest is justified based on the end, then you may as well bring back regicide or other such motivated murder.

 

[Macky]

you may as well bring back regicide or other such motivated murder.

YAY!!! Good plan

 

[Hazzman]

Out of interest to those who support the protests, would it have still been OK if the smashed window had killed someone?

Also the minute you start saying that sometimes violent protest is justified based on the end, then you may as well bring back regicide or other such motivated murder.

1) No because it wouldn't happen. I am sure smashed window deaths are rare. :icon_lol: There would have been a death just like there was a death at the G40 protests, just like a long line of historical riots and violent protests. The impact doesn't change, the history stays and it probably (sadly) creates more of a legacy. The fire extinguisher was idiotic but that's looking increasingly like it was done by a nutter.

2) The violent protest was not justified on the grounds of the possibility of injury or death. It was justified that it was the only way the students were going to make an impact. As daft as it sounds, there was a good percentage of the population who didn't have a clue about the rise.

This is the tip of the iceberg, it will get worse. The benefits cuts will get sympathy...not for the families living off the state, for disabilities etc. The government are being very ****ing quiet on that side of it...watching Question Time, Theresa May was directly questioned with but didn't even give it a mention.

 

[Lako42]

Does it?

Riots in the 80s certainly didn't make you a twat, it was justified whether on the grounds of race or poll tax for example. Back then there was no cuts in the short term but long term people began to listen.

It's odd that you're a twat in Britain but Europe and beyond, the opinion is different.

Here's an example - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article5563020.ece

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100929/ap_on_bi_ge/eu_europe_austerity_protests

Fully agree with you Hazz, nice to see a group standing up for something and not moaning about it on the internet and then forgetting about it and having a wank and a cup of tea.

 

[Mawsley]

2) The violent protest was not justified on the grounds of the possibility of injury or death. It was justified that it was the only way the students were going to make an impact.

Sorry, but 'bollocks'.

If you'd had a whole bunch of fit twenty-somethings in the nip that would have had a much more positive level of support from the public.

No one is scared by them. No one is supporting them because of their idiocy. It has achieved precisely ****-all in positive terms.

 

[Boy Genius]

1) No because it wouldn't happen. I am sure smashed window deaths are rare. :icon_lol: There would have been a death just like there was a death at the G40 protests, just like a long line of historical riots and violent protests. The impact doesn't change, the history stays and it probably (sadly) creates more of a legacy. The fire extinguisher was idiotic but that's looking increasingly like it was done by a nutter.

2) The violent protest was not justified on the grounds of the possibility of injury or death. It was justified that it was the only way the students were going to make an impact. As daft as it sounds, there was a good percentage of the population who didn't have a clue about the rise.

This is the tip of the iceberg, it will get worse. The benefits cuts will get sympathy...not for the families living off the state, for disabilities etc. The government are being very ****ing quiet on that side of it...watching Question Time, Theresa May was directly questioned with but didn't even give it a mention.

Do you not take into consideration that it is Labour who have got us into this mess and the cuts are a part of that mess. To get things back on line drastic measures have to be taken. TBH they should scrap half of the degree courses as they are worthless, if the students want to take these pointless course pay in full, take a worth while course and get it part paid for on completion.

 

[Hazzman]

Do you not take into consideration that it is Labour who have got us into this mess and the cuts are a part of that mess. To get things back on line drastic measures have to be taken. TBH they should scrap half of the degree courses as they are worthless, if the students want to take these pointless course pay in full, take a worth while course and get it part paid for on completion.

I haven't raised an opinion politically on the students protest. I have reason to believe that protests will occur as the cuts effect more people. When the cuts eventually hit the majority, expect chaos. This has nothing to do with me thinking it's a right decision by the current government. That said part of the coalition is full of hypocrites who have effectively killed any nothing of their political party gained support in the next twenty years.

Your opinion on scraping degree courses is somewhat correct IMO. I do however think the Tories are playing a dangerous game charging students more. There's a lot of money which can be made from them. Look at Leicester and identify where the streets with shops, pubs and restaurants are. Take away the student population, it knocks onto housing and construction too. Streets like Woodgate etc. which were similarly full of shops and pubs are ****ed atm.

 

[Cate Fox]

I haven't raised an opinion politically on the students protest. I have reason to believe that protests will occur as the cuts effect more people. When the cuts eventually hit the majority, expect chaos. This has nothing to do with me thinking it's a right decision by the current government. That said part of the coalition is full of hypocrites who have effectively killed any nothing of their political party gained support in the next twenty years.

Your opinion on scraping degree courses is somewhat correct IMO. I do however think the Tories are playing a dangerous game charging students more. There's a lot of money which can be made from them. Look at Leicester and identify where the streets with shops, pubs and restaurants are. Take away the student population, it knocks onto housing and construction too. Streets like Woodgate etc. which were similarly full of shops and pubs are ****ed atm.

slightly OT, but the year I lived in Braunstone Gate, surrounded by students, was the worst year of my life. I had no sleep, they were inconsiderate noisy bastards who thought nothing of chucking bottles around in the street and screaming at the top of their voices at 5am, banging on peoples windows (mainly mine) and being total pains in the arse.

 

[Mawsley]

...the Tories are playing a dangerous game charging students more...

They aren't. The Tories aren't charging anybody anything.

They are allowing universities to charge a more reasonable sum to reflect the cost burden incurred in running courses.

 

[Boy Genius]

I haven't raised an opinion politically on the students protest. I have reason to believe that protests will occur as the cuts effect more people. When the cuts eventually hit the majority, expect chaos. This has nothing to do with me thinking it's a right decision by the current government. That said part of the coalition is full of hypocrites who have effectively killed any nothing of their political party gained support in the next twenty years.

Your opinion on scraping degree courses is somewhat correct IMO. I do however think the Tories are playing a dangerous game charging students more. There's a lot of money which can be made from them. Look at Leicester and identify where the streets with shops, pubs and restaurants are. Take away the student population, it knocks onto housing and construction too. Streets like Woodgate etc. which were similarly full of shops and pubs are ****ed atm.

I have read that a few times and still not make any sense of it.

 

[bocadillo]

I have read that a few times and still not make any sense of it.

It's written in Hazzish. It means that nobody will believe anything the LibDems say in the future.

 

[Dour]

They aren't. The Tories aren't charging anybody anything.

They are allowing universities to charge a more reasonable sum to reflect the cost burden incurred in running courses.

I think your hand must have slipped on the keyboard. Didn't you mean to say:

They are forcing the universities to charge an unreasonable sum to individuals for something that will benefit everyone. Plus, as a bonus, it suddenly makes financial sense (if no other kind) to take provision of education in the arts, humanities and social sciences into the private sector.