Thanksgiving

[The Major]

Well I've had 2 very nice holidays in Florida.

 

[David Gwilliam]

I take it that's directed at me?

It isn't a 'sweeping generalisation', it's a very accurate depiction of their administration.
I would've thought that it was patently obvious that I wasn't talking about the population of America,. They're to be pitied, not despised.

I am not sure why Americans are to be pitied. The people I came across in America had a high standard of living and were very cheerful.
I was greeted warmly in the East coast but nothing can compare with the friendliness of the people in the mid-west. I hope an American visitor to Britain would get the same welcome.

It has been said that "the states that voted for Bush were against many things but second helpings are not one of them."

I would not want to leave England but if forced to then life in a small town in Arizona seemed pretty good.

 

[Macky]

I am not sure why Americans are to be pitied.

For having such a despicable regime controlling their country for so long without having any alternative choice. A corporatocracy with Democrats and Republicans just two sides of the same shitty coin.

 

[SJN-Fox]

Thank you America for refusing to extradite soldiers involed in the alleged killing of Terry Lloyd or any so called "friendly fire" murders, allowing them to walk away scot free.

Thank you America for insisting that we extradite a mentaly ill person for hacking into ther woefully insecure computer systems and doing no damage whatsoever to anyone or anything and in doing so facing a potential 70 year prison sentence.

****s.

 

[David Gwilliam]

For having such a despicable regime controlling their country for so long without having any alternative choice. A corporatocracy with Democrats and Republicans just two sides of the same shitty coin.

To me McCain and Obama were both impressive men well qualified to be leader of their country. There was a clear difference between them and IMO America chose wisely.

I look around the world and see total corruption in the case of Berlusconi, a holocaust denier in Ahmadinejad, a former secret policeman in Putin and pure malevolence in Mugabe.
I remember a former Vichy collaborator being President of France, an ally of Hitler being caudillo of Spain, a man suspected of Nazi war crimes being President of Austria and a President of Uganda who I think was completely mad.
Compared with these leaders Obama seems rather reasonable.

Much of the dislike of America comes from them being the superpower. In the early 1920s the Lord High Chancellor Lord Birkenhead read out an impressive list of Britain's enemies. Churchill, then the Minister for War simply replied "That my dear Birkenhead is the price of empire".

Your grandchildren may feel as strongly about China as you do about America.

 

[Dour]

a former secret policeman in Putin.

Is that different to George Bush, then?

 

[drummindefender]

David Gwilliam. ****ing legend (well not really but i love his posts!)

 

[Dour]

I do not believe Kissinger would have gone into Vietnam in the first place and I doubt if he would have gone into Iraq.

Kissinger was a Republican who put his perception of American interests first, whatever the cost to other countries. Look at Chile, Greece, Cyprus, Cambodia, Chile and East Timor if you want to ignore Vietnam.

I don't think he's laughing at himself - more cackling at having gotten away with crimes that would have seen him in the dock in Den Haag if he wasn't American.

 

[David Gwilliam]

Thank you America for refusing to extradite soldiers involed in the alleged killing of Terry Lloyd or any so called "friendly fire" murders, allowing them to walk away scot free.

Thank you America for insisting that we extradite a mentaly ill person for hacking into ther woefully insecure computer systems and doing no damage whatsoever to anyone or anything and in doing so facing a potential 70 year prison sentence.

****s.

You call it murder. It was certainly tragic. I don't know if anyone else has called it murder. My understanding is that the strongest term used is "unlawful killing".

You have not said what good would come from the trial of these men.
I am very lucky in that I have never been in a war and so I hesitate to judge those ordinary soldiers having to make "fire or don't fire" decisions very quickly.

They are quite right not to extradite the soldiers who did not commit murder. Murder involves intent. "Friendly fire" is a horrible phrase for a tragic accident that happens in every war. We will never know how many soldiers died from their own side in the Second World War. It is a rather mordant joke and no doubt an exageration that thye German advance in 1940 was so rapid that more German soldiers were killed in 1940 by the Luftwaffe than by the French. I used to know a man who had been in the Korean War who had been fired on by the Chinese, the Americans and the British. Luckily all three were incompetent.
I have no doubt that since the Second World War there have been good and brave ex-soldiers in this country having to live with the nightmare of killing their own side.
It is not murder, they should not be brought to trial though I would guess they suffer for it. So called "friendly fire" is one of the many things that makes war so horrible. The only way to end friendly fire is to end war - now that would be an achievement.

 

[David Gwilliam]

David Gwilliam. ****ing legend (well not really but i love his posts!)

Thank you

 

[Macky]

To me McCain and Obama were both impressive men well qualified to be leader of their country. There was a clear difference between them and IMO America chose w*s*ly.

You're absolutely right, there is a clear difference between them. Obama is much younger and is much more media friendly.
Any other differences are purely superficial.

I look around the world and see total corruption in the case of Berlusconi, a holocaust denier in Ahmadinejad, a former secret policeman in Putin and pure malevolence in Mugabe.
I remember a former Vichy collaborator being President of France, an ally of Hitler being caudillo of Spain, a man suspected of Nazi war crimes being President of Austria and a President of Uganda who I think was completely mad.
Compared with these leaders Obama seems rather reasonable.

But we're not just talking about individuals, my objection is the odious US foreign policy stretching back decades.

Much of the dislike of America comes from them being the superpower.

No, much of the dislike comes from the abuse of their position as a superpower, huge difference.

In the early 1920s the Lord High Chancellor Lord Birkenhead read out an impressive list of Britain's enemies. Churchill, then the Minister for War simply replied "That my dear Birkenhead is the price of empire".

No my dear David, the price of empire is the blood of innocent people.
It is as indefensible and downright evil as Britain's empire was.

Your grandchildren may feel as strongly about China as you do about America.

My grandchildren may feel as strongly about China as I feel about China.

 

[Siouxsie]

My grandchildren may feel as strongly about China as I feel about China.

That it has much better food than America?

 

[Macky]

That it has much better food than America?

:icon_bigg
I don't particularly like either of their culinary delights to be honest

 

[SwedeFox]

I don't know why but I get the feeling from his posts that David Gwilliam is 114 years old.

How many world wars have you survived, David?

Great work, by the way.

 

[Lako42]

I don't know why but I get the feeling from his posts that David Gwilliam is 114 years old.

How many world wars have you survived, David?

Great work, by the way.

A maximum of two I reckon.

 

[Durham Fox]

:icon_bigg
I don't particularly like either of their culinary delights to be honest

If you dont eat meat or beansprouts whats left?

 

[MKFox]

water chestnuts, bamboo shoots, rice, noodles, sesame toast, seaweed, spring rolls, chinese mushrooms??
:icon_wink

 

[drummindefender]

You're absolutely right, there is a clear difference between them. Obama is much younger and is much more media friendly.
Any other differences are purely superficial.

If you think that then you really didn't look into the issues surrounding the election. yes American politics is decided on a neo-liberalism platform but to say the differences between them are "purely superficial" is a bit naive.

No, much of the dislike comes from the abuse of their position as a superpower, huge difference.


No my dear David, the price of empire is the blood of innocent people.
It is as indefensible and downright evil as Britain's empire was.

Bit unfair to just criticise America for abusing its power. Name me any great power throughout history who hasn't abused their power? Abusing power seems to be within human nature. Your second quote seems to back this up.
Also i'd much rather have a superpower who does what America does then one which tries to takeover the world via force like previous ones have done, America is pretty well behaved compared to previous powers-which other powers have set up a United Nations (i know in recent years they've taken the piss out of it) and committed so many troops to regions to try and guarantee peace with great success like in Europe. Obviously in an ideal world we wouldn't have either abuses of power, but i'll take the lesser of the two evils any day

It's easy to slag them off, but we'd have been ****ed without them.

 

[bocadillo]

... American politics is decided on a neo-liberalism platform but to say the differences between [the two main parties] are "purely superficial" is a bit naive.

Many, many people would say that to think that the differences are other than purely superficial is a lot naive.

 

[drummindefender]

I'd say staying the policy differences over various things such as Iraq (McCain wouldn't have drawn up exit plan whilst Obama has) and Healthcare (McCain would never have attempted any kind of reform), as well as the proposals for solving the financial crisis (do you really think a Repubican government would've bailed out like the Democrats have?) were pretty significant.