The ‘player(s) I have just seen on telly and think we should sign’ thread

[Payne74]

I don't think it's anything to do with that. Everyone can see the effort he puts in. It's much more to do with consistency. With Iheanacho, he's either great or looks like he's had both feet amputated and has no control over his bloody stumps.

There's a player in there somewhere but we just never know which Nacho will turn up and that is problematic.

Same can be said of Barnes and Gray both can be very good or complete garbage

 

[popillius]

Same can be said of Barnes and Gray both can be very good or complete garbage

Correct, although less so in the case of Barnes who, on the whole, has done well.

 

[Robin127]

If Barnes could finish he'd be terrifying to play against.

 

[popillius]

If Barnes could finish he'd be terrifying to play against.

Absolutely. He must work really hard on that part of his game and he can become a really exceptional player. Gray will always blow hot and cold I think but he has changed games and I still think he's worth keeping for another year.

 

[H T B]

If Barnes could finish he'd be terrifying to play against.

That first effort against Sheff Utd, we should have had a Penalty for the blatant push in the back

 

[mabrah]

That first effort against Sheff Utd, we should have had a Penalty for the blatant push in the back

It certainly looked blatant to me but nodody but nobody seemed interested, Barnes included. A commentator mentioned 'a little push' when watching the replay but no mention of a penalty. I figured I must have something wrong, or there was somethng I didn't understand, so I'm pleased you've mentioned it.

 

[Robin127]

That first effort against Sheff Utd, we should have had a Penalty for the blatant push in the back

Not questioning that but the second effort was really poor.

 

[Brown Nose]

That first effort against Sheff Utd, we should have had a Penalty for the blatant push in the back

If we miss out on the top four, I think the thing I'll blame most is our extraordinarily stupid failure to argue for decisions this season.

Time after time, when there is a push, a hand ball, a pull back, etc. you don't hear a peep out of us. Nobody in our team ever appeals for anything. If we played cricket, we'd never take a wicket.

There have been multiple examples of other sides putting pressure on refs that make the VAR focus on something. One of the many failures of VAR is that it discriminates when it comes to decisions. Apart from offsides, it brushes things under the carpet whenever you let it.

BR was a strong advocate of VAR from the beginning of the season and I agreed with him. But he's just failed to pick up on this all season. You have to scream and stamp your feet when you want VAR to make a decision.

 

[Matt_B]

If we miss out on the top four, I think the thing I'll blame most is our extraordinarily stupid failure to argue for decisions this season.

Time after time, when there is a push, a hand ball, a pull back, etc. you don't hear a peep out of us. Nobody in our team ever appeals for anything. If we played cricket, we'd never take a wicket.

There have been multiple examples of other sides putting pressure on refs that make the VAR focus on something. One of the many failures of VAR is that it discriminates when it comes to decisions. Apart from offsides, it brushes things under the carpet whenever you let it.

BR was a strong advocate of VAR from the beginning of the season and I agreed with him. But he's just failed to pick up on this all season. You have to scream and stamp your feet when you want VAR to make a decision.

Yet another reason when football is becoming shit. I agree with you, but I don't want a game that is more about who can get away with cheating more.

 

[Lako42]

Yet another reason when football is becoming shit. I agree with you, but I don't want a game that is more about who can get away with cheating more.

Appealing forcefully for decisions you believe should go your way is not cheating.

If the appeal is shown to be incorrect by VAR then it doesn't stand anyway.

 

[Blue Maniac]

Appealing forcefully for decisions you believe should go your way is not cheating.

I think he meant the fouls that don’t get looked at because our players don’t appeal enough.

 

[Matt_B]

I think he meant the fouls that don’t get looked at because our players don’t appeal enough.

Exactly. With VAR at the minute it's not about getting the right decision. The game is heading towards those who influence the ref get their decisions because they aren't being overturned, largely. It doesn't matter if they are right it wrong at the minute, it's whether they are wrong enough to change.

Referees should be making decisions and the VAR should be correcting them as the default state, bit because somebody complained. I know players and managers have always influenced the ref, but now that influence is being ratified by VAR.

Man Utd have a greater points benefit from VAR than any other team this year. Is that because they complain more and VAR overturns the refs decision, or because refs give worse decisions when they are reffing Man Utd? I don't know how many of those points were from them getting a decision for them, or their opponents having a goal etc chalked off unfortunately, but it would be interesting to know.

EDIT: I found the data. Of Man Utd's 8 goal swing with VAR, 7 have been opponent goals being disallowed. Are the officials that poor at spotting them, are they all marginal offsides, or is it ever so slightly biases?

 

[Matt_B]

Appealing forcefully for decisions you believe should go your way is not cheating.

If the appeal is shown to be incorrect by VAR then it doesn't stand anyway.

It's not just appealing for decisions though. Look at Man City. Their entire defensive game plan is based on how many fouls they can get away with committing. And they get away with it. Grealish and Maddison have built a reputation on flopping and trying to get away with it, like many before.

 

[big_mac4824]

I don’t rate Mings, personally. McGinn wouldn’t be a bad shout.

Would you put McGinn ahead of Praet?

 

[big_mac4824]

Exactly. With VAR at the minute it's not about getting the right decision. The game is heading towards those who influence the ref get their decisions because they aren't being overturned, largely. It doesn't matter if they are right it wrong at the minute, it's whether they are wrong enough to change.

Referees should be making decisions and the VAR should be correcting them as the default state, bit because somebody complained. I know players and managers have always influenced the ref, but now that influence is being ratified by VAR.

Man Utd have a greater points benefit from VAR than any other team this year. Is that because they complain more and VAR overturns the refs decision, or because refs give worse decisions when they are reffing Man Utd? I don't know how many of those points were from them getting a decision for them, or their opponents having a goal etc chalked off unfortunately, but it would be interesting to know.

EDIT: I found the data. Of Man Utd's 8 goal swing with VAR, 7 have been opponent goals being disallowed. Are the officials that poor at spotting them, are they all marginal offsides, or is it ever so slightly biases?

I agree the current system means that VAR backs the referee unless it is blindingly obvious. The red card when we Arsenal was clear cut yet the VAR official did not want to make the decision, the ref walked over and made a decision in 60 seconds.
It should be there the same as in Rugby it is there to assist both teams not reinforce credibility of the officials, it is fine if the man in the middle get its wrong he or she human as long as VAR tells them there is no issue, currently that does not happen unless I am completely wrong and I am happy to be corrected.

 

[Miles Away]

Would you put McGinn ahead of Praet?

I like Praet. McGinn is much better.

 

[big_mac4824]

I like Praet. McGinn is much better.

I must admit I have seen too much of McGinn he has been injured for a far period of time, I think Norwich can see the vultures circling for some rich pickings they have some talent in their squad.

 

[Brown Nose]

I think that Praet may well leave this summer. It doesn't look like BR approves of his style given the amount of times that he is left out or substituted. He has featured in 25 PL matches but averages less than half a game each time. If he starts, he's almost certainly the first to be substituted irrespective of his performance.

Prior to lockdown, it was obvious that Praet was one of our best players but that he was oddly under used. Since the restart, he has been poor and not really merited much football. It looks to me as though BR just doesn't trust Praet. It also looks to me as though Praet isn't very happy with how things are going here.

Prior to signing Praet, we were linked with McGinn. He is a player BR and Congerton have been strongly linked with in the past. BR has spoken of being gutted when he chose Villa over Celtic a couple of years ago. Just before we signed Praet, McGinn signed a new deal at Villa and I did speculate on here that the two things may have been linked.

If Villa go down, McGinn is likely to seek a move and Villa are likely to need to sell assets. It may well suit BR that Praet wants out to facilitate this.

 

[mabrah]

It doesn't look like BR approves of his style given the amount of times that he is left out or substituted.

I get the same impression.

I like Praet, he's my kind of player, but I can see it's not quite working out for him. Whether that's because of our/BR's preferred shape/style or what, I don't know. There was a mention from someone here that, in their opinion, he doesn't work well with Ndidi - so that's something I have kept an eye out for. Not that you see them together that often, which maybe in itself says a lot. Ndidi's always going to be top dog in the DM role, he's essential to us, so it's a matter of fitting Praet into the system.

He was spoken of very highly when he left Italy but I don't think we've really seen that player, I don't think that's down to him either. I think it's how he's being used (or not used, as the case may be). I wouldn't be surprised if he wants away himself.

 

[popillius]

I think that Praet may well leave this summer. It doesn't look like BR approves of his style given the amount of times that he is left out or substituted. He has featured in 25 PL matches but averages less than half a game each time. If he starts, he's almost certainly the first to be substituted irrespective of his performance.

Prior to lockdown, it was obvious that Praet was one of our best players but that he was oddly under used. Since the restart, he has been poor and not really merited much football. It looks to me as though BR just doesn't trust Praet. It also looks to me as though Praet isn't very happy with how things are going here.

Prior to signing Praet, we were linked with McGinn. He is a player BR and Congerton have been strongly linked with in the past. BR has spoken of being gutted when he chose Villa over Celtic a couple of years ago. Just before we signed Praet, McGinn signed a new deal at Villa and I did speculate on here that the two things may have been linked.

If Villa go down, McGinn is likely to seek a move and Villa are likely to need to sell assets. It may well suit BR that Praet wants out to facilitate this.

He's never looked like one of our best players. I still don't understand where this myth has come from and I can totally understand why he wasn't used. He is tidy sometimes and calm on the ball (again, sometimes) but nothing more. He doesn't influence games enough and unless you are playing to contain or to slow down the game he is not really much use to us. He is nothing like as good as Ndidi at tidying up or controlling play, nothing like as good as Maddison at creating chances and making things happen, nothing like as good as Perez at attacking defences etc.... As a result, I struggle to see where he fits in other than as an adequate back up. If he's not happy with that role then he needs to leave.

There is no comparison between him and McGinn; McGinn is a much, much better player, albeit a different one.