"There is no racism in football"

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I think I agree with JM. Do you have an example of a black manager or potential manager being discriminated against?

I can recall several black managers that have proved to be pretty poor at their jobs yet got other chances with several clubs. As JM says, would a club really not employ someone they see as the best option because of the colour of their skin? I don't see it. Football is an industry that gets the best that it can irrespective of nationality or colour.
 
Brown Nose said:
I think I agree with JM. Do you have an example of a black manager or potential manager being discriminated against?
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How do you explain that there are only two black managers at professional clubs in England, and relatively few black coaches?

If it's not due to discrimination, what is it?

Don't say it's because they're not good enough. They're just not being given the chance, right from when they retire as players and want to become coaches. Maybe once there are some high profile successful black managers attitudes will change and people will get the chance lower down. That's what had to happen with players, before they got a fair chance.
 
Jeff said:
How do you explain that there are only two black managers at professional clubs in England, and relatively few black coaches?

If it's not due to discrimination, what is it?

Don't say it's because they're not good enough. They're just not being given the chance, right from when they retire as players and want to become coaches. Maybe once there are some high profile successful black managers attitudes will change and people will get the chance lower down. That's what had to happen with players, before they got a fair chance.
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It is a pretty big assumption that just because there are currently only two black managers in league football, this is because of racism.

Can you refer me to any examples of black people that have attempted to get into management and felt that they've not because of the colour of their skin? Aside from any from any bitter failures of course. I think that both on the pitch and in the dugout, football in this country has shown no evidence that it gives a shiny shite what colour the people doing the work are.

Over the last generation, the proportion of black players has increased. Over the next generation, I'd expect the proportion of black managers to increase. Just like the proportion of Scottish players in the English game has reduced over the last generation and so I'd expect the number of Scottish managers to reduce over the next one too.

Handing the next Paul Ince or Terry Connor a job because of the colour of their skin would be entirely the wrong thing to do for them and the game.
 
Aside from whether there is racism, do many top clubs still interview for managers? Most seem to decide who they want and then go and poach them, unless they have been tarred as a club.
 
Matt_B said:
Aside from whether there is racism, do many top clubs still interview for managers? Most seem to decide who they want and then go and poach them, unless they have been tarred as a club.
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Racist
 
Brown Nose said:
Can you refer me to any examples of black people that have attempted to get into management and felt that they've not because of the colour of their skin?
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Several mentioned here: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/english-football-failed-black-players-4111684


And this quote from Gordon Taylor here: http://www.theguardian.com/football...ylor-hidden-racism-black-managers-rooney-rule
"I can give you a list of black players who’ve become coaches, who’ve got their A licence, who’ve got their B licence, who’ve gone all the way up the ranks, they’ve got the pro-licence and aren’t getting opportunities. So I know for a fact they've got that merit but there is a hidden racism that seems to hold clubs back"


I've heard that a lot of retired black players don't bother trying to get coaching qualifications because they think it's a waste of time as they're unlikely to get a decent job.
 
Jeff said:
Several mentioned here: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/english-football-failed-black-players-4111684


And this quote from Gordon Taylor here: http://www.theguardian.com/football...ylor-hidden-racism-black-managers-rooney-rule
"I can give you a list of black players who’ve become coaches, who’ve got their A licence, who’ve got their B licence, who’ve gone all the way up the ranks, they’ve got the pro-licence and aren’t getting opportunities. So I know for a fact they've got that merit but there is a hidden racism that seems to hold clubs back"


I've heard that a lot of retired black players don't bother trying to get coaching qualifications because they think it's a waste of time as they're unlikely to get a decent job.
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I thought the 'evidence' would be like this. In the Mirror article, Hill lists half a dozen players from the 70/80s and their failure to become managers as proof. This is utter nonsense. A hundred times that number of white players from the same era will have the same sob story of being qualified but never given the chance. "Hill is an articulate man" it says, so fecking what?

In the other article, as per usual, Gordon Taylor talks bollocks. He is a Union leader who will say and do anything to ingratiate himself in the eyes of his members.

I can't think of any example of a black coach/manager that has demonstrated sufficient ability and has subsquently been under-promoted or passed over. Just using a random example, if Redknapp was sacked by QPR and Rio Ferdinand took over as caretaker and did well, do you think he wouldn't get the job because he's black? Or if he took QPR to the Champions League, do you think Man Utd or AN Other top club wouldn't want him because he was black? That's essentially what's being said. That decisions are made on skin colour alone. I really don't see it.

Clubs will appoint someone that doesn't even speak the language if they think he'll do the job. Clubs don't give a shit, they just want results.
 
I can't see how the Rooney rule will work? When Spurs wanted Pottecino they want and asked permission and then took him. Would they have to also find a black manager somewhere to interview even though they knew who they wanted? I don't see how Thayer would solve the situation.
 
Matt_B said:
I can't see how the Rooney rule will work? When Spurs wanted Pottecino they want and asked permission and then took him. Would they have to also find a black manager somewhere to interview even though they knew who they wanted? I don't see how Thayer would solve the situation.
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It wont. Forcing people to interview a candidate who they think isn't up to the job is just ****ing stupid. A nice token (wrong word?) gesture is going to achieve **** all. It's just a little unfortunate that the examples of black managers who are in/out of work that they keep dragging out have been pretty shit, as it gives an easy excuse to ignore the problem.
 
Any claim that "there is no racism in football" is just rank stupidity and one that flies in the face of all of evidence to the contrary.

Without the managerial benches and boardrooms reflecting the racial mix of the playing fields there is no evidence to support such an imbecilic position.

It's like Wayne Brown never existed.

anton-terry_2855086b.jpg
 
Mawsley said:
Any claim that "there is no racism in football" is just rank stupidity and one that flies in the face of all of evidence to the contrary.

Without the managerial benches and boardrooms reflecting the racial mix of the playing fields there is no evidence to support such an imbecilic position.

It's like Wayne Brown never existed.

View attachment 11547
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I've never suggested that there is no racism is football in its entirety. Football is no different to any other part of society. So there are individuals that are bigoted, just like there are in large factories or offices. What I would say, is that football is an industry that is a wonderful example of undermining racism. It produces black heroes that are loved and cheered every week by people from all backgrounds.

However, that isn't what you and these articles are claiming. What is being claimed is that there is institutionalised racism that is specific towards black people who attempt to get on in management. I think this is lazy nonsense based upon dreadful evidence. Should black people be exempt from being crap at management? This rule wants them to get a chance just because they're black. It won't work and shouldn't work. Talented and skilled black people will prevail.
 
Brown Nose said:
It is a pretty big assumption that just because there are currently only two black managers in league football, this is because of racism.
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I know, right? It's a crazy assumption to make. Where do people get crazy notions like that? It's far more likely that there's no other black managers because they're too busy smoking ganja and playing bongo drums or whatever it is they do
 
I was just trying to raise the level of debate beyond GCSE Sociology.

Here is a quote from Carlton Palmer today:

"Years ago I wasn't considering anything other than a career coaching in professional football after playing, but I have turned down numerous opportunities to get back into football at home. I was finding it was not as it was before. Part of me would still love to crack management, but you just don't get given the time and quality of life is important too, and I was lucky in that I was able to move on and do something else".

How dare he speak the truth rather than trot out lame excuses like Ricky Hill.
 
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Yep, certainly no racism in football.
 
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