To our moron fans

[FIF]

I'm not agreeing with Lingo, but I think he/she makes a few good points.

Children should never be in physical danger.

However over the years my infrequent visits have brought home to me the different ambiance at games now. I am a fan of rowdy noise and accept that politically incorrect language and chants should be allowed.

I think the use of the old Filbert street pens for the rowdy noisy fans was a good idea and the families and boring oldies in the family stand.

I moved from sitting behind the goal in the north stand as a young season ticket holder to living in the pens as an arrogant ado and young adult. Then using the seated areas when I started to take my youngest. Now I'm sure he'd prefer to have a rowdy area to go being 15.

I think football grounds have become too sanitised. having said that Ilove the view that is available from anywhere in Walkers, I'd simply have kept (if it had been allowed) standing areas for both sets of fans.

 

[FIF]

Interesting.

As far as I'm concerned safety is paramount. I accept that there is a loss of atmosphere involved in ensuring safety, e.g. loss of the crowd crushes leading to the Hillsborough fatalities ; loss of the thrill of having psychotic visiting supporters pulling knives in the Filbo double decker prior to crowd segregation etc etc.

Obviously, I have picked on extreme examples - but yes, i have now reached the point where I think that a "sterile" atmosphere is preferable to little kids being terrified. I appreciate that there may be people who think that being placed in a dangerous situation represents a 'growing up' experience but basically I'm all signed up to civilisation and the law being enforced at football matches even if it involves a bit of namby pambyism if that means its safe.

I think that's it's sad that football is the only sport where segregation is seen as necessary. Ridiculous

 

[Lingo]

Interesting.

As far as I'm concerned safety is paramount. I accept that there is a loss of atmosphere involved in ensuring safety, e.g. loss of the crowd crushes leading to the Hillsborough fatalities ; loss of the thrill of having psychotic visiting supporters pulling knives in the Filbo double decker prior to crowd segregation etc etc.

Obviously, I have picked on extreme examples - but yes, i have now reached the point where I think that a "sterile" atmosphere is preferable to little kids being terrified. I appreciate that there may be people who think that being placed in a dangerous situation represents a 'growing up' experience but basically I'm all signed up to civilisation and the law being enforced at football matches even if it involves a bit of namby pambyism if that means its safe.

I'm sorry geez. I can't really take your argument seriously when you are using such extreme, irrelevant examples. What kind of mental prick would get a 'thrill' from having a blade pulled on them. It's not really the kind of thing we're talking about here is it. Why bring Hillsborough into it?!

If you want a sterile atmosphere than that should be available. In the family stand at home games. It is, and I think that's brilliant. I don't agree with current attempts in football by the clubs themselves and by parents, to turn football into a completely 'family' game. Why should we all have to endure what certain people consider to be a 'family match day experience.' It's good to have families at football but every single other type of fan shouldn't have to conform to what certain over protective parents want and don't want for the kids in a football ground. There's nothing more jarring than having some parent at the Walkers not to use certain words and act in a certain way because their children are here. They know where the family stand is, ****ing use it.

 

[Redditch Fox]

If you want a sterile atmosphere than that should be available. In the family stand at home games. It is, and I think that's brilliant. I don't agree with current attempts in football by the clubs themselves and by parents, to turn football into a completely 'family' game. Why should we all have to endure what certain people consider to be a 'family match day experience.' It's good to have families at football but every single other type of fan shouldn't have to conform to what certain over protective parents want and don't want for the kids in a football ground. There's nothing more jarring than having some parent at the Walkers not to use certain words and act in a certain way because their children are here. They know where the family stand is, ****ing use it.

I more or less agree with that.

On the question of extreme examples, I have used those because that's what lack of effective controls can lead to. The Hillsborough affair is a bit too sensitive to analyse, too closely ,but certainly in the 70's/ early 80's - very weak attempts at fans segregation at Filbert Street created difficulties.

 

[Redditch Fox]

I think that's it's sad that football is the only sport where segregation is seen as necessary. Ridiculous

But ask yourself why it was introduced.

 

[FIF]

But ask yourself why it was introduced.

It was morally insane.

I was there, I know why it was done but it wasn't the correct answer. It was like sending poor people who nicked bread all the way around the other side of the world as punishment.

Bloody stupid.

 

[muzzysgal]

I grew up seeing far worse things/being far more 'at risk' at away games than a few geezers splashing a bit of beer about and I'm sure many of you did too.

So does that mean it's acceptable?

Do our children have to go through some kind of "initiation ceremony" to make them a "real fan"?

I'm sure my Dad didn't want my younger brother to witness the scenes that he did when Chelsea were at Filbert Street many years ago, and I'm sure nobody would want their own children to witness those kinds of scenes now.

Things that children see can have profound effects on them for many years.

I certainly wouldn't want my children to see men in their 30s/40s/50s acting how they were on that concourse yesterday because a) It's intimidating and frightening for them and b) Some, more impressionable kids, may just think it's "cool".

It's not about being over-protective and wrapping them in cotton wool, it's about common sense.

 

[Lingo]

Yeah I read a journal article that suggested that a lot of the problems England's had with football violence would have been avoided if they'd tried to resolve the issue rather than just segregating fans. Difficult to say though.

 

[muzzysgal]

I doubt anybody wants a "sterile atmosphere" at a football ground. Singing and banter should be encouraged, it's when it gets physical that it's totally unacceptable IMO.

 

[Redditch Fox]

It was morally insane.

I was there, I know why it was done but it wasn't the correct answer. It was like sending poor people who nicked bread all the way around the other side of the world as punishment.

Bloody stupid.

Without trying to turn this forum into a English Social History seminar (although given the demise of our football team we might as well) - my impressions are that there have been periods in the history of football going way back into the 19th Century when there has been serious violence and disorder attached to soccer. There have been other periods when the game has been peaceful e.g. right throughout the 1950's home and visiting supporters used to mix quite happily on the Popular Side at Filbert Street with the only rivalry being harmless banter and some competition for the best vantage point - i.e. towards the back of the terrace on the half way line. This had all changed by the late 60's and through the 70's and early 80's when fans used to compete in a league of internecine violence both within and without the ground - including Leicester.

All seater, non-standing, segregated stadia have reduced the violence. i think if we went back to non-segregated standing areas then it would be disastrous. I regard the people who support this move as equivalent to the poor folk who belong to CAMRA and delude themselves that some of these rightly nearly extinct local ales (that people like me remember as virtually poison) as the genuine article.

Mind you - there won't be a lot of potential violence at The Walkers anyway - an away corner populated with about 150 visiting fans isnt going to act as much of a stimulus to 13,500 Leicester fans.

 

[Melton Fox]

I'd rather take my child to a football match with a lively atmosphere, a bit of edge and the miniscule chance of getting blinded by a plastic bottle (??!!) than an atmosphere similar to what we have at the Walkers.

WOW!!!!

How old are your children? and do they enjoy witnessing this type of behaviour?

 

[Macky]

Sorry, just realised you were being sarcastic.

I can assure you I was not being sarcastic.

Bollocks. Violence and supporting your team are two completely different things. Anyone in to violence is not a proper football fan.

You're quite right, they are two completely different things, but the two are not mutually exclusive.
It is a fact that there are a lot of 'proper football fans' (whatever that means) that are also very into violence.
An unwelcome truth, but a truth none the less.

 

[fletton_casual]

yeah..it kicked of at p/boro yesterday missiles towrds the police etc, we dont mind a kick off now and then.

 

[FIF]

I regard the people who support this move as equivalent to the poor folk who belong to CAMRA and delude themselves that some of these rightly nearly extinct local ales (that people like me remember as virtually poison) as the genuine article.

I must be poor folk then. The answer is not segregation that really solves very little and costs a lot more. you don't really think that Rugby fans/Basketball fans/voleyball fans/cricket fans etc... are just better people due to their sport do you?

 

[Melton Fox]

I must be poor folk then. The answer is not segregation that really solves very little and costs a lot more. you don't really think that Rugby fans/Basketball fans/voleyball fans/cricket fans etc... are just better people due to their sport do you?

I don't, If anything it's vice versa and they choose their sport because of the person they are.

Why do you think they are all mutually exclusive anyway?

 

[FIF]

I don't.

 

[norman leet]

Yeh, Some lads definitely took it to far today. It's a shame because I like a bit of atmosphere in the concourse and it gives it a bad name when pricks start doing things like this.
All this ban them for life stuff is bollocks though. It's not like they like they're ****ing around like that at every away. Plus, I'd rather get hit with a plastic bottle than have to sit next to some thermos flask mong who doesn't sing at all during the game.Personal opinion.

Personal opinion and the opinion of a moron.

Similar response when I made a post about 15 year old chavs sing on the train going to Barnsley

'We hate Pakis, Jews. Catholics, no surrender to the IRA, Up the BNP etc gutter stuff.

A response I got from another moron was 'at least they create an amosphere'

 

[Redditch Fox]

I must be poor folk then. The answer is not segregation that really solves very little and costs a lot more. you don't really think that Rugby fans/Basketball fans/voleyball fans/cricket fans etc... are just better people due to their sport do you?

"Better people" - ah that's too difficult for me. Can't answer that one.

I doubt if you or anyone else would argue with the fact that soccer matches attract more psycho fans than the other sports you mention.

 

[Leesoh]

I like segregation, and not from the perspective of trouble etc. I enjoy the feeling of unity that you get at away matches by sitting or standing with my own fans. I also think it is better for the banter/atmosphere.

 

[FIF]

"Better people" - ah that's too difficult for me. Can't answer that one.

I doubt if you or anyone else would argue with the fact that soccer matches attract more psycho fans than the other sports you mention.

I agree. What I disagree with is that segregation resolves the problem.

In a classroom do we leave the obnoxious, rowdy, violent kids in the class and allow them to sit together in a group? If we do, is that the best course of action? There are areas in society where we allow these elements to get together and they become no go zones where the law has no control.

In football we have far more liberty than in the classroom or in society to target these thugs and take measures. No-one has a right to go to a football match.