Where the season went wrong.....

[Jimmy Lad]

I knew we had struggled against the teams towards the bottom of the league but until I actually looked at it in detail, I didn't realise how bad it was! Below are our results against the bottom 8 as it stands today (home results first):

Millwall 0-3 / 0-2 - 0 points
P'boro 1-1 / 0-1 - 1 point
NF 0-0 / 2-2 - 2 points
Barns 1-2 / 1-1 - 1 point
Bristol C 1-2 / 2-3 - 0 points
Cov 2-0 / 1-0 - 6 points!
Ports 1-1 / 1-1 - 2 points
Donc 4-0 / 1-2 - 3 points

TOTAL OF 15 POINTS FROM A POSSIBLE 48 POINTS (AVGE OF 0.94 / GAME)

Compare that to the other games we have played so far this season against teams in positions 1 - 16:

TOTAL OF 47 POINTS FROM A POSSIBLE 81 POINTS (AVGE OF 1.74 / GAME)

Even if we had matched (and not bettered, which on paper you would expect us to have done) our form against teams in 1st - 16th we would have picked up 28 Points (16 games x 1.74 points / game).

Therefore we would then have a current total of 75 points and sit in 4th (8 points from 7th place).

This therefore beggars the question as to why we have struggled so much against the lesser teams (that other teams have clearly succeeded against)?

IMO this smacks of arrogance on our part when going into the 'so called' easy games. Pearson (or whoever ends up in charge) quite clearly needs to get the message across to our players that they are not as good as they think they are and to treat all opposition with the same respect and mindset. If we are to manage this next season we may have a better chance!

The stats suggest that we clearly had a team good enough to have comfortably made the play offs if they had applied themselves equally to every game.

 

[Macky]

This therefore beggars the question ....

How on Earth do you beggar a question and what does this mean? Do you mean 'prompts the question'?

IMO this smacks of arrogance on our part when going into the 'so called' easy games. Pearson (or whoever ends up in charge) quite clearly needs to get the message across to our players that they are not as good as they think they are and to treat all opposition with the same respect and mindset. If we are to manage this next season we may have a better chance!

The stats suggest that we clearly had a team good enough to have comfortably made the play offs if they had applied themselves equally to every game.

Not necessarily, it may also be indicative of the different playing styles between the top and bottom teams

 

[Jimmy Lad]

How on Earth do you beggar a question and what does this mean? Do you mean 'prompts the question'?¨

In a word, yes. In a lot more words....

Beg the question
Meaning
This is one of those rare phrases in which the meaning is more debated than the origin.
The usage which has become common in recent years has a meaning something along the lines of 'prompt/raise the question', that is, 'beg that the question be asked'. This is usually seen in circumstances where something is described and then an explanation is sought; for example, this piece from a 2003 edition of the Jamaican newspaper The Gleaner:
What we are saying here is that every 2 days a juvenile is arrested and it begs the question, "What is really happening to our parents?"
This usage is understandable and has presumably come about by interpreting the 'beg' of 'beg the question' as 'request' or 'humbly submit'. This is the meaning of the word in the similar phrase 'beg to differ'.
The original meaning was quite different though. To 'beg the question' was coined as a rather over-literal translation of the Latin phrase 'petitio principii'. The Latin version was itself a translation of Greek text 'en archei aiteisthai' taken from Aristotle's Prior Analytics. The phrase was known in English by at least 1581, at which date it was recorded by William Clarke:
"Ffiij, I say this is still to begge the question."
The logical constructs that Aristotle was describing were statements which assume the truth that one is attempting to prove. Those might be questions which have an assertion smuggled into them, like 'Why has England fewer trees per acre than any other country in Europe?'. Or, more commonly, the fallacious reasoning that we now usually call a 'circular argument'; for example, 'He must be speaking the truth because he never lies'. The 'truth' being assumed in advance isn't always so blatant. René Descartes' famous 'I think, therefore I am' can be said to be begging the question as he must exist before he can think - it is hardly a proof of anything to state 'I exist, therefore I am'.
If things weren't obscure enough with this phrase there was a version of the meaning that emerged between the two given above. That was its use to mean 'avoid the question'. This presumably also came from a misreading of 'beg' to follow the meaning of 'beggar description' or 'beggar belief'. That meaning of beggar, which seems to have been coined by Shakespeare in Anthony and Cleopatra, 1606, is 'exceed the resources of; go beyond':
"For her owne person It beggerd all discription."
Most authorities now view the current 'raise the question' meaning as acceptable, even if that is a somewhat grudging recognition that the weight of numbers of those who use it that way is overwhelming. It is also suggested by some that the minority who know and understand the original version should avoid using it, unless they are amongst consenting adults, as they aren't likely to be understood. That would be an unfortunate route to take. Whatever we might prefer, it is very likely that the percentage of the population that knows, or cares, that they are using the phrase incorrectly will continue to decline.

 

[Jimmy Lad]

Not necessarily, it may also be indicative of the different playing styles between the top and bottom teams

True and fair comment. Having said that, it would appear that most other teams in the league haven't had the same problems that we have against the bottom 8 so it must just be our style of play!

 

[homer]

The stats suggest that we clearly had a team good enough to have comfortably made the play offs if they had applied themselves equally to every game.

Not if that equally applied level was that which was displayed in the games listed in your post

Instead we would probably have got relegated


So this is all just a load of complete and utter bollocks, isn't it ?

 

[gregs_y2k]

We've had 2 managers this season who have shown that they are lacking in ideas when it comes to playing teams who are determined to not let us play. Millwall at the weekend was a perfect example. Giving Andy King his first start in months was a calamitous mistake.

 

[Willlow]

The majority of those loses are because Gallagher doesnt win headers or tackle!

Also he only put in 20% of the effort required

 

[Willlow]

We've had 2 managers this season who have shown that they are lacking in ideas when it comes to playing teams who are determined to not let us play. Millwall at the weekend was a perfect example. Giving Andy King his first start in months was a calamitous mistake.

Ruling out Drinkwater who was seemingly dropped to the subs bench due to his poor performance against Ipswich (when he was taking off at half time), who would you have played instead?

 

[Jeff]

he was taking off at half time

Red Bull?

 

[gregs_y2k]

Ruling out Drinkwater who was seemingly dropped to the subs bench due to his poor performance against Ipswich (when he was taking off at half time), who would you have played instead?

I'd have played Drinkwater still, you don't throw in a lightweight midfielder just back from injury into the starting line up for a combative fixture. Players have bad games, doesn't mean they should be dropped for the next one. Rooney had a shocker against Wigan, he still started against Villa and scored twice, whilst still playing within himself. Drinkwater came off the bench and scored which suggests relegating him to the bench wasn't the greatest idea.

 

[gregs_y2k]

I'd have also played Dyer instead of Gallagher. Although Dyer isn't the most combative midfielder, pace on the wing would've drawn a few fouls and free kicks.

 

[Redditch Fox]

The lack of ball winning midfielders has cost us dear. The root of this problem is Sven's poor recruitment coupled with Pearson's lack of judgement and lack of flexibility on team selection/ tactics.

 

[Longcliffe]

Pearson returned?

 

[Miles Away]

The lack of ball winning midfielders has cost us dear. The root of this problem is Sven's poor recruitment coupled with Pearson's lack of judgement and lack of flexibility on team selection/ tactics.

Abe and Fernandes didn't fit that bill then?

 

[Profondo Rosso]

Abe and Fernandes didn't fit that bill then?

Don't really see how Abe or Fernandes were ball winning midfielders.

Abe was probably one of the players you'd least expect to win the ball and Fernandes was just an energetic box-to-box midfielder who got around a lot and played a lot of one-twos, but I don't remember him being a very good ball winner.

Defensive misdifelders maybe, but so are Wellens, Danns and King used to play that way too, for all the midfielders we've used this season I do tend to agree with Redditch that none of them have been ball winners and we have lacked that all season. Danns is probably the closest thing we've had to one.

 

[indierich06]

Abe and Fernandes didn't fit that bill then?

Neither of them really set the world alight during Sven's tenure - they were hardly the lynchpin of our promotion campaign.

Once Sven was sacked Fernandes didn't want to play for the club anymore, I doubt it mattered who we brought in, Fernandes only came because Sven was here, so if he didn't want to be here, what could Pearson have done?

With regards to Abe, he was homesick and no longer wanted to live in this country. Can you blame us for letting him return to his family, would it have been better to have kept him against his wishes?

 

[H T B]

Shows how bloody frustrating this season has been.

It started to go wrong after 10 minutes(ish) in on the first game away to Covscum when DV got sent off!

 

[Redditch Fox]

Abe and Fernandes didn't fit that bill then?

I thought Abe was a very busy and committed player - wouldn't say that he fitted into the ball winning category. I only saw Fernandes a couple of times - one of these he was only on the pitch for about 5 minutes. He had good pace and skill levels as his main attributes.

The thing is we started the season with a glut of midfielders and somehow a number of them were never viable and others have fallen by the wayside and others look lightweight in this division (or probably any other division). I suspect we would have been better off selling King when we could have got some proper money for him, but hindsight etc. I actually think that Gallagher is a useful squad member.....but not worth a regular place - and I hope we've reached a point where he will be moved on so Pearson isn't tempted to make the same selection mistakes next season.

 

[Filthy Rich]

Sacking Sven.

 

[Real Sharapova]

Appointing Sven the previous season.