Rooney rule in the football league 2016/17 season

[spionfox]

There a lots of 'invisible' disabilities, I wouldn't be surprised if a few of people in football have one.

Also, Sheffield Wednesday used to employ a manager with one leg.

Not forgetting those who (not literally) didn't have a leg to stand on. Like Craig Leveine for example.

 

[jb5000]

Not forgetting those who (not literally) didn't have a leg to stand on. Like Craig Leveine for example.

He was lucky to have the support of a smashing group of lads though.

 

[Blaarev]

He was lucky to have the support of a smashing group of lads though.

Wasn't that Rob Kelly?

 

[jb5000]

Wasn't that Rob Kelly?

Wasn't he Levein's assistant?

 

[Blaarev]

Wasn't he Levein's assistant?

Wasn't he indeed.

 

[Feriol]

I Think the greatest value in this rule is encouraging black managers and coaches to apply for jobs where they might not have bothered before. Also it forces those doing the recruiting to reject the black applicant which is much harder than ignoring them, it also easier to identify if the decision is prejudiced.

 

[fitz]

I Think the greatest value in this rule is encouraging black managers and coaches to apply for jobs where they might not have bothered before.

There should be encouragement anyhoo. In recent times Edgar Davids, Chris Ramsey, Chris Hughton and Hasselwank have all been handed jobs either at a high level with little managerial experience or a lower level with no/little coaching. Newcastle have recently been turned down by the great seasoned manager that is Patrick Vieira. There's reason to be encouraged without needing to have privilege handed to you because of your skin pigmentation. We now have a lack of British managers at the top clubs so perhaps we need to put a rule in for that too.

 

[fitz]

There should be encouragement anyhoo. In recent times Edgar Davids, Chris Ramsey, Chris Hughton and Hasselwank have all been handed jobs either at a high level with little managerial experience or a lower level with no/little coaching. Newcastle have recently been turned down by the great seasoned manager that is Patrick Vieira. There's reason to be encouraged without needing to have privilege handed to you because of your skin pigmentation. We now have a lack of British managers at the top clubs so perhaps we need to put a rule in for that too.

Oh...and Homer's favourite manager walked into it too.

 

[jb5000]

There should be encouragement anyhoo. In recent times Edgar Davids, Chris Ramsey, Chris Hughton and Hasselwank have all been handed jobs either at a high level with little managerial experience or a lower level with no/little coaching. Newcastle have recently been turned down by the great seasoned manager that is Patrick Vieira. There's reason to be encouraged without needing to have privilege handed to you because of your skin pigmentation. We now have a lack of British managers at the top clubs so perhaps we need to put a rule in for that too.

I just wanted to check: Is this the Jimmy Floyd Hasselbank who was successfully managing Royal Antwerp before going to Burton, a club in the fourth tier? Is this the Chris Ramsey and Chris Hughton who were highly respected first team coaches at Spurs before getting the chance to manage at a smaller club? Or was this the European Cup winning playing legend Edgar Davids who was somehow talked in to playing for the smallest club in our fourth tier, and who was only offered the chance to manage them after coaching them and they were desperate to avoid the drop?

If these guys have been unduly promoted, I'm having trouble seeing it.

 

[fitz]

I just wanted to check: Is this the Jimmy Floyd Hasselbank who was successfully managing Royal Antwerp before going to Burton, a club in the fourth tier? Is this the Chris Ramsey and Chris Hughton who were highly respected first team coaches at Spurs before getting the chance to manage at a smaller club? Or was this the European Cup winning playing legend Edgar Davids who was somehow talked in to playing for the smallest club in our fourth tier, and who was only offered the chance to manage them after coaching them and they were desperate to avoid the drop?

If these guys have been unduly promoted, I'm having trouble seeing it.

My point wasn't that they were unduly promoted, it's about being not being restricted of opportunities. I mentioned the point that Hughton and Ramsey were coaches but had no managerial experience, so can't see how your point disproves that? I'd not class QPR in the Prem or Newcastle in the Championship as being small clubs. Davids had little experience before going to Barnet, his playing history has cock all to do with his managerial pedigree and why he should be handed a job - though I'm sure it helped. Granted Hasselwank had some experience, none in this country. All in all I can't see how anything I said is incorrect (bar possibly the JFH thing but even then I'd be surprised if many would seek out the Antwerp boss).

 

[Macky]

I still don't get what all this have to do with Wayne Rooney. Is it something similar to Fergie time?

All clubs will be required to have at least one token player that resembles Shrek, so as to teach kids that even ugly people can get laid, so long as they have enough money.
They're role models, did you know that?

 

[jb5000]

My point wasn't that they were unduly promoted, it's about being not being restricted of opportunities. I mentioned the point that Hughton and Ramsey were coaches but had no managerial experience, so can't see how your point disproves that? I'd not class QPR in the Prem or Newcastle in the Championship as being small clubs. Davids had little experience before going to Barnet, his playing history has cock all to do with his managerial pedigree and why he should be handed a job - though I'm sure it helped. Granted Hasselwank had some experience, none in this country. All in all I can't see how anything I said is incorrect (bar possibly the JFH thing but even then I'd be surprised if many would seek out the Antwerp boss).

I didn't say small, I said smaller. It would take a real diehard barcode or hoops fan to claim that those clubs are not currently smaller than Spurs. Burton and Barnet are about as small as professional football clubs get in this country. As you say, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbank had relevant managerial experience anyway, but larger clubs have recruited managers with similar playing records and no managerial experience before. Do Alan Shearer (Newcastle), Tony Adams (Portsmouth), Steve McMahon (Swindon), Glen Hoddle (Swindon again), and Paul Merson (Walsall) have anything in common?

 

[fitz]

I just wanted to check: Is this the Jimmy Floyd Hasselbank who was successfully managing Royal Antwerp before going to Burton, a club in the fourth tier? Is this the Chris Ramsey and Chris Hughton who were highly respected first team coaches at Spurs before getting the chance to manage at a smaller club? Or was this the European Cup winning playing legend Edgar Davids who was somehow talked in to playing for the smallest club in our fourth tier, and who was only offered the chance to manage them after coaching them and they were desperate to avoid the drop?

If these guys have been unduly promoted, I'm having trouble seeing it.

I didn't say small, I said smaller. It would take a real diehard barcode or hoops fan to claim that those clubs are not currently smaller than Spurs. Burton and Barnet are about as small as professional football clubs get in this country. As you say, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbank had relevant managerial experience anyway, but larger clubs have recruited managers with similar playing records and no managerial experience before. Do Alan Shearer (Newcastle), Tony Adams (Portsmouth), Steve McMahon (Swindon), Glen Hoddle (Swindon again), and Paul Merson (Walsall) have anything in common?

They have, so why does this mean that black players shouldn't be encouraged that there clearly have been opportunities for others?

 

[rjk]

They have, so why does this mean that black players shouldn't be encouraged that there clearly have been opportunities for others?

Because you have named all of the black players in that situation. jb5000/anyone else making the same point could have listed 20 or 30 more white former players who have failed with little or no effort.

 

[fitz]

Because you have named all of the black players in that situation. jb5000/anyone else making the same point could have listed 20 or 30 more white former players who have failed with little or no effort.

Ok, so because these black people have been given an opportunity then people shouldn't be encouraged by that? Makes sense.

 

[rjk]

Ok, so because these black people have been given an opportunity then people shouldn't be encouraged by that? Makes sense.

Wow.

 

[fitz]

Wow.

Of course there are going to be more white managers you could list, as there are and have always been more white players/coaches. An increase in black managers (however small) should be promoted as a good thing as it'll encourage others to apply when they may not have done previously. I can't see how it has the reverse effect?

 

[rjk]

Of course there are going to be more white managers you could list, as there are and have always been more white players/coaches. An increase in black managers (however small) should be promoted as a good thing as it'll encourage others to apply when they may not have done previously. I can't see how it has the reverse effect?

So you don't think black applicants are being ignored for senior management/coaching positions in the professional game? That black people aren't even trying to get these positions? I presume you think this just political correctness gorn maaad. That the Rooney scheme is unnecessary. That if, as has been reported, they are not even being invited to interview for positions they apply for, then it's because they aren't good enough. And that is all it is. Maybe white people are just better at C.V. writing then...

The Rooney scheme was a scheme born out of the constant stream of black applicants saying they weren't even getting an interview. It's simply ensuring that applicants for a position are treated equally in the process. It doesn't mean a black candidate has more chance of a job than a white candidate. It just means that they can get a fair chance to try. Something there is ample evidence that they weren't getting before.

 

[fitz]

So you don't think black applicants are being ignored for senior management/coaching positions in the professional game? That black people aren't even trying to get these positions? I presume you think this just political correctness gorn maaad. That the Rooney scheme is unnecessary. That if, as has been reported, they are not even being invited to interview for positions they apply for, then it's because they aren't good enough. And that is all it is. Maybe white people are just better at C.V. writing then...

The Rooney scheme was a scheme born out of the constant stream of black applicants saying they weren't even getting an interview. It's simply ensuring that applicants for a position are treated equally in the process. It doesn't mean a black candidate has more chance of a job than a white candidate. It just means that they can get a fair chance to try. Something there is ample evidence that they weren't getting before.

Interesting take on what I said there. You presume wrong.

As for the Rooney rule being unnecessary - it shouldn't be necessary, if football adopted the stance that an increase in the number of black managers is a promising step rather than constantly taking a negative view then it may see some change. I'd sooner a different approach taken than resort to tokenism or plain racism. I stand by my stance that ethnicity etc should never be used in selection processes.

 

[rjk]

Interesting take on what I said there. You presume wrong.

As for the Rooney rule being unnecessary - it shouldn't be necessary, if football adopted the stance that an increase in the number of black managers is a promising step rather than constantly taking a negative view then it may see some change. I'd sooner a different approach taken than resort to tokenism or plain racism. I stand by my stance that ethnicity etc should never be used in selection processes.

The whole reason for this rule is that inadvertently or not it already is. It is not designed to catch out racists. It is designed to stop owners/chairman from only choosing white candidates for interviews.