BBC Ian Holloway column

[Melton Fox]

Sorry to pick out something that was part of a wider comment, but I heard someone saying that yesterday and it wound me up.

I didn't go yesterday so I can't comment.

For me, it's becoming tedious and boring so maybe as a result of my whole matchday experience becoming less fun, I see less attractive football. I don't know, but i'm certainly not impressed.

I would like to point out that I'm not saying Holloway isn't the right man, and I'm not saying Megson was, it just annoys the hell out of me the lack of equality dished out by our fans towards our players and Managers.

We clearly have our favourites, and 9 times out of 10 these are usually unjustified. I like to see people getting treated equally, and I see Hume getting treated better than MDV/Cort, and I see Holloway getting treated better than Megson for no apparent reason.

I'm just sick of it.

 

[Disco Bob]

I wish I liked any of them enough to warrant being called a "favourite"

 

[Dunc]

We clearly have our favourites, and 9 times out of 10 these are usually unjustified. I like to see people getting treated equally, and I see Hume getting treated better than MDV/Cort, and I see Holloway getting treated better than Megson for no apparent reason.

I'm just sick of it.

I agree with you, at yesterdays game Cort did well, better than Hume IMO who was ineffective all game yet any little mistake by Cort was greeted by a barrage of abuse whereas others don't get any comment for the simple things that happen to all players - misplaced passes, mis control etc - even the best lose the ball occassionally!

The same is also true of Stearman, he was clearly at fault for the 1st goal and defensively he wasn't great against Brunt who was superb, but with the ball his distribution was a lot better than I've seen usually and in the 2nd half he got better as it went on. Yet he gives the ball away, gets called "shit" "useless cnut" etc etc yet Kenton who races round like a headless chicken, diving into tackles and not winning them, generally giving the ball away everytime he can't make a simple 10 yard pass to King/Weso or Clemence gets lauded as our best player!!!

If thats what people think is good, basically running around and launching into slide tackles that 4/5 don't get the ball and being out of position most of the time, then it explains a lot of the inequalities you mention.

Also (sorry I'm on a rant now), Clemence's use of the ball was excellent, he kept the ball, made simple passes (ie sideways, backwards if needs be) and put a lot of work in as well. Yet, he gets hounded (at least around me) for not playing it forwards everytime even though most of the time Chambers & Hume were isolating Cort who was on his own up top for large parts.

Then when he does go forwards with a risky pass to Cort who has 3 men around him, he gets jeered for hoofing it and Cort gets blamed for not being able to hold off 3 men, take an ambitious pass at head height in an instant and then wait for Hume & Chambers to get near him to play it forwards (god forbid we'd ever pass backwards because thats negative and rubbish - BOOOOOO!).

the BM's are taking over and its not a nice thought.

 

[Melton Fox]

I agree with you, at yesterdays game Cort did well, better than Hume IMO who was ineffective all game yet any little mistake by Cort was greeted by a barrage of abuse whereas others don't get any comment for the simple things that happen to all players - misplaced passes, mis control etc - even the best lose the ball occassionally!

The same is also true of Stearman, he was clearly at fault for the 1st goal and defensively he wasn't great, but with the ball his distribution was alot better than I've seen usually and in the 2nd half he got better as it went on. Yet he gives the ball away, gets called "shit" "useless cnut" etc etc yet Kenton who races round like a headless chicken, diving into tackles and not winning them, generally giving the ball away everytime he can't make a simple 10 yard pass to King/Weso or Clemence gets lauded as our best player!!!

If thats what people think is good, basically running around and launching into slide tackles that 4/5 don't get the ball and being out of position most of the time, then it explains a lot of the inequalities you mention.

Also (sorry I'm on a rant now), Clemence's use of the ball was excellent, he kept the ball made simple passes (ie sideways, backwards if needs be) and put a lot of work in as well. Yet, he gets hounded (at least around me) for not playing it forwards everytime even though most of the time Chambers & Hume were isolating Cort who was on his own up top for large parts, and then when he does go forwards with a risky pass to Cort who has 3 men around him, he gets jeered for hoofing it and Cort gets blamed for not being able to hold off 3 men, take an ambitious pass at head height in an instant and then wait for Hume & Chambers to get near him to play it forwards (god forbid we'd ever pass backwards because thats negative and rubbish - BOOOOOO!).

the BM's are taking over and its not a nice thought.

Blimey Dunc, I agree 100% and that is one of the best footballing posts I have read on here for a long time.

For me it was epitimised against southampton when Hume missed a sitter from 6 yards and within a few seconds Newton missed a slightly more difficult chance and got berated and booed for it. When I say "slightly more difficult", I do actually mean "really easy, but not as easy as hume's"

Hume blasts over and wide and gets the Huuuuummeee chant, while cort gets booed off.

It's not just the inequality in itself what pisses me off, it's the level of hate which is aimed at the victim.

 

[highland fox]

Thats what Clemnce is good at,he's not going to make a defence splitting pass or dribble round 3 of the opposition.He's a holding midfielder who needs a more attacking probing midfielder alongside him.When and if this happens then I'd judge him.The same goes with the Strikers,I don't rate Cort nver have but I wouldn't slate him whilst we have a non existent midfield.

 

[Matt_B]

I'm surprised a man with as much aggression and passion as you have will just roll over and die if you think you are the underdog.

The moment I see my team concede 3 points before KO is the moment I stop going.

Pathetic excuse.

Also to dismiss the Megson thingy at the start of your post is the equivalent of getting into a boxing ring and asking your opponent not to get in with you because you'll get beaten.

The way Megson was treated is history, you are correct. But it happened, and the reverse is happening now and IMO the future looks worse now than it did back then.

You all dismissed Megson on the grounds he had ginger hair and used to manage Forest despite him getting West Brom promoted to the Prem twice and steadying the ship here.

Holloway has came here with no real history and record to be poud of, we're now playing the worst football I can ever remember seeing, and we're conceeding the goals that Megson was preventing.

Yet Holloway is still preferable to Megson.

I don't understand you lot sometimes.

I said similar things to my dad yesterday. Whilst I like the fact that IH is prepared to play attacking football, we are not equiped to do so. We have a lot of shite that just isn't good enough. Megson saw this and realised there was feck all he could do until the transfer window, so he played to our strenght which was defending and it worked very well. But because we weren't winning and because we set up with 5 at the back at home people got the arse and treated him as they did.

We get what we deserve at this club

 

[Lako42]

I'm surprised a man with as much aggression and passion as you have will just roll over and die if you think you are the underdog.
.

Not as surprised as i am i can assure you, im sick to the back teeth of being let down, the fact is that being constantly let down for 5 years has had a massive effect on me.

Im fed up, im bored and most of all im sad. Im nowhere near as angry as i used to be because alot of it stemed from being so passionate about city.

Ive lost that loving feeling.

 

[spionfox]

Ive lost that loving feeling.

and it's gone, gone, gone.
and I can't go on, woa oh woa oh oh.

 

[Dogbreath]

I agree with you, at yesterdays game Cort did well, better than Hume IMO who was ineffective all game yet any little mistake by Cort

<Snip>

Chambers to get near him to play it forwards (god forbid we'd ever pass backwards because thats negative and rubbish - BOOOOOO!).

the BM's are taking over and its not a nice thought.

Quality post Dunc. Unfortunately it'll be lost on too many

 

[Brauny Blue]

For as long as i can remember city fans have always had their favourites and their boo boys. In the mid 80's Mark Bright was disgracefully treated by the city faithful. What did they expect we had just sold a club legend in Gary Lineker and replaced him with a £50K odd player from Port Vale. He was a young raw recruit who was never in Linekers league. He tried hard but the city faithful pratically hounded him out of the club, and then watched him go on to have a much more successful career at clubs like Palace and Wednesday.
Mark Venus was another young player cruelly treated by the fans, he also became a solid professional at Ipswich after receiving a torrent of abuse from our wonderful supporters.
Simon Grayson was another target for the fans in his early city career.
I also recall Emile Heskey copping the abuse for falling on his arse too often. Steve Guppy was often slated by the kop at Filbo
Of the current situation Hume is lauded because like Walshie he looks like he will chase lost causes, where as the likes of Cort are not that type of player. Imo Hume is not good enough, but survives the fans fury because of effort. Cort if fit is a better player but his lack of willingness will never endear him to the city faithful

 

[Scarby]

For as long as i can remember city fans have always had their favourites and their boo boys. In the mid 80's Mark Bright was disgracefully treated by the city faithful. What did they expect we had just sold a club legend in Gary Lineker and replaced him with a £50K odd player from Port Vale. He was a young raw recruit who was never in Linekers league. He tried hard but the city faithful pratically hounded him out of the club, and then watched him go on to have a much more successful career at clubs like Palace and Wednesday.
Mark Venus was another young player cruelly treated by the fans, he also became a solid professional at Ipswich after receiving a torrent of abuse from our wonderful supporters.
Simon Grayson was another target for the fans in his early city career.
I also recall Emile Heskey copping the abuse for falling on his arse too often. Steve Guppy was often slated by the kop at Filbo
Of the current situation Hume is lauded because like Walshie he looks like he will chase lost causes, where as the likes of Cort are not that type of player. Imo Hume is not good enough, but survives the fans fury because of effort. Cort if fit is a better player but his lack of willingness will never endear him to the city faithful

agreed

 

[spionfox]

Of the current situation Hume is lauded because like Walshie he looks like he will chase lost causes, where as the likes of Cort are not that type of player. Imo Hume is not good enough, but survives the fans fury because of effort. Cort if fit is a better player but his lack of willingness will never endear him to the city faithful

Walshy is in danger of losing his hero status with me.

As for your final comment, any player who shows a lack of willingness doesn't deserve anything back from the fans. In the case of Cort, he is supposedly not at 100% anyway so maybe it isn't necessarily right to say it is 'willingness' he lacks at the moment.

 

[Scarby]

the BM's are taking over and its not a nice thought.

BM?

 

[Lako42]

BM?

Blue Mongies

 

[alex]

BM: Backwards Monkeys.

 

[Scarby]

BM BM du du du du du
BM BM du du du do
BM BM du du du du du
du du du du......

 

[spionfox]

BM BM du du du du du
BM BM du du du do
BM BM du du du du du
du du du du......

da da da
da da da
da da da

 

[Melton Fox]

da da da da da dad dad dad dad da

 

[DesertFox]

Some of you need to realise that God himself could not achieve great results with this crock of shit.

It is a case of seeing out this nothing season and taking it from there, it's not Ollies fault he has one of the most inept squads in the league, and before you say it, it wasn't megsons fault either, but thats in the past and i couldn't give a flying feck about meggo.

Stop looking for results against teams that we are not capable of achieving and maybe the manager will get a bit of slack this season.

We have no right to think we should beat anyone in this league, we are shit, we will be shit for the rest of the season, come to terms with it and stop expecting the unachievable.

Sorry to pick out something that was part of a wider comment, but I heard someone saying that yesterday and it wound me up.

Its clearly not the worst football ever, that performance yesterday was better than the majority of last seasons and at times we did ok against a good side.

I heard the same comments (maybe not from you granted) that it was the worst football ever under Adams, then it was the worst football ever under Levein, then it was definately the worst football under Kelly, but then again, it was beyond arguement that Megson gave us the works football ever and now apparently it is the worst football ever seen under IH.

I think its time to accept that the players we have, and the majority of which have been around for 2-3 years perhaps aren't that good and that the players MM/MA2 brought in were even worse than what we had and that IH has to be given time to change things round.

If nothing else he has instilled an improvement in attitude and effort, derided under RK, CL, MA and to an extent GM.

Two of the best posts on here in ages.

I said similar things to my dad yesterday. Whilst I like the fact that IH is prepared to play attacking football, we are not equiped to do so. We have a lot of shite that just isn't good enough. Megson saw this and realised there was feck all he could do until the transfer window, so he played to our strenght which was defending and it worked very well. But because we weren't winning and because we set up with 5 at the back at home people got the arse and treated him as they did.

We get what we deserve at this club

You're right Beights, but the two options are:
1) play to our strengths for now, and then when he gets the players he wants he has to change the system which will cause more problems later
2) play the system and style he wants now, for which we don't currently have the players, giving us another problem

I prefer option 2) as I think a manager should be his own man and impose his principals and ideas on the players, not pander to their weaknesses. But either way, we're fecked! :icon_eek:

 

[spionfox]

1) play to our strengths for now, and then when he gets the players he wants he has to change the system which will cause more problems later
2) play the system and style he wants now, for which we don't currently have the players, giving us another problem

I prefer option 2) as I think a manager should be his own man and impose his principals and ideas on the players, not pander to their weaknesses. But either way, we're fecked! :icon_eek:

What's the point of trying to put square pegs in round holes? If we haven't got the players to play the way he wants then he has to use the ones he has got in a system that is going to get us more points than it loses.

If that means compromising the way he wants to play then so be it.

We really can't keep dropping points like we are doing. Megson knew that and so should Ollie. I'm sure he does.