Brexit

[Blue Maniac]

and the classic....

Very strange brand of comedy to trade on for three decades, what channel is she on?

 

[FOX Franks]

and the classic....

That somehow gets worse by an exponential factor every single time you watch it.

 

[Blue Maniac]

That somehow gets worse by an exponential factor every single time you watch it.

It’s horrifying isn’t it?

 

[FOX Franks]

It’s horrifying isn’t it?

It’s the little twist and smile like a cat that’s just dropped a twitching mouse at your feet.

 

[Blue Maniac]

It’s the little twist and smile like a cat that’s just dropped a twitching mouse at your feet.

PORK

MARKETS

 

[Robin127]

and the classic....

Bloody hell, that really is like something from Monty Python.

 

[give_us_a_wave]

What the shit

As batshit as it sounds today, the late 70s state comprehensive I went to was exactly like that. Apart from the female teacher in question was much more attractive than the one in the piece. More smoked salmon than pot noodle.

 

[give_us_a_wave]

Bloody hell, that really is like something from Monty Python.

What it reminds me of is the head of sales at the office xmas party, a bit pissed, trying to tell a joke.

Which really says it all.

Modern politicians, across all parties, are basically just facilitators & middle managers. Unremarkable, interchangeable, forgettable.

40 years of privatisation has removed so much of what governments used to control that the sort of people who used to go into party politics with a desire to promote reform & change no longer do. They realise it's pointless. So they become community activists instead, or they work for charities & pressure groups, or what's left of the unions.

Idealists are gone, replaced by functionaries.

Anyone who imagines that this collection of staggering incompetents & halfwits is actually running the country needs to lay off the drink for a bit.

 

[Darth Vodka]

and last night, the unions torpedoed Labour's vote for PR

fml, what a state

 

[give_us_a_wave]

and last night, the unions torpedoed Labour's vote for PR

fml, what a state

No surprise.

Neither left or right want anything to do with PR. The Tories slipped into the election bill last week ( when no-one was looking due to the reshuffle ) a switch from PR to FPP for future mayoral & PCC elections. It'll give the Tories more metro mayors.

FPP is a perfect voting system for a 19th century 2 party state. Which is why both main parties want to keep it despite Labour giving PR lip service every so often when they want to sound progressive.

Fact is, Labour are ****ing deluded in thinking they can ever see power again without becoming so similar to the Tories it barely ****ing matters if they're in or not. The Voter ID stitch up will mainly affect non Tory voters, the aforementioned mayoral election victories will enable Boris & Rishi to wheel out the pork barrel to buy more votes & secure those areas forever.

Labour SHOULD be pushing for PR with everything they've got, but won't because they think they're still a secure 2nd party with government just around the corner.

Democracy is an inconvenience both parties would prefer to do without if possible.

 

[Darth Vodka]

No surprise.

Neither left or right want anything to do with PR. The Tories slipped into the election bill last week ( when no-one was looking due to the reshuffle ) a switch from PR to FPP for future mayoral & PCC elections. It'll give the Tories more metro mayors.

FPP is a perfect voting system for a 19th century 2 party state. Which is why both main parties want to keep it despite Labour giving PR lip service every so often when they want to sound progressive.

Fact is, Labour are ****ing deluded in thinking they can ever see power again without becoming so similar to the Tories it barely ****ing matters if they're in or not. The Voter ID stitch up will mainly affect non Tory voters, the aforementioned mayoral election victories will enable Boris & Rishi to wheel out the pork barrel to buy more votes & secure those areas forever.

Labour SHOULD be pushing for PR with everything they've got, but won't because they think they're still a secure 2nd party with government just around the corner.

Democracy is an inconvenience both parties would prefer to do without if possible.

100% agree

what can we do though?

 

[David Gwilliam]

I have been reluctant to post on this topic since I do not understand the 21st Century. My consolation is that neither does anybody else. - there may be some child under the age of ten who will eventually understand Brexit but not for several decades.

One obvious point. Millions voted to Remain and millions voted to Leave. The European Union must have had major virtues and major faults,

Full disclosure. In 1975 I strongly supported Britain remaining in what was usually called the Common Market. In 2016 I hesitatingly voted Brexit. From that point on Brexit needed to happen. If there had been second referendum and Britain had remained after voting to Leave it would have poisoned politics for decades. Democracy involves accepting that you sometimes lose. In 1997 John Major left a bottle of champagne for the Blairs and spent his free afternoon at the cricket - true style.

Scotland voted strongly to Remain and lost this is a serious problem for the United Kingdom. My guess -and it is only a guess - is that if Scotland gets independence future historians will see this as important

London voted strongly in favour of Remain while the rest of England voted strongly for Leave. I have no idea what this means but suspect future historians will find it significant.

A number of Remainers have told me that they do not believe in Referendums. There are some issues that need referendums. The referendum on changing the voting system was one example as was the one on Scottish independence. It would be a mistake to abandon referenda altogether.

In 1975 the party leaders supported Remain. This was especially important in Labour heartlands where Harold Wilson was trusted and liked - Harold wants us to Remain was a potent phrase, In 2016 no party leader had that kind of credibility. Make of this what you will,

Much of the generation that voted Leave in 1975 has died out. The Leave voters of 2016 are often people like myself who believed in a Common Market but were troubled by those wanting a United States of Europe. How can you have a United States of Europe when the Balkan states hate Austria, the Poles and Greeks hate the Germans and the French have never forgiven England for burning their greatest saint as a witch.

One last point. I may not understand 2021 but I have some understanding of a much bigger crisis from 1688-89. The Catholic James II was driven off the throne by supporters of William of Orange (William III) The supporters of James II (Jacobites) were accused of being French spies. The supporters of William III were accused of wanting to return to the days of Oliver Cromwell. In a few cases this was actually true and these cases were seized upon. In a few cases Remainers were unpatriotic and Leavers were racist but perhaps only a minority.. Incidentally the crisis of 1688 led to civil wars in 1715 and 1745, The crisis lasted - I have seen a letter from as late as 1770 in which a father warns a son visiting Rome to stay away from the Jacobite community. This was bigger than Brexit.

Another last point (that will please pedants) I have resented bring told that being against membership of the European Union I am against Europe. I love Europe. My favourite painter is Raphael, my favourite composer is Mozart, I love German white wine, French cheese and my reaction to young ladies with an Italian accent is a family joke,

 

[Matt_B]

I have been reluctant to post on this topic since I do not understand the 21st Century. My consolation is that neither does anybody else. - there may be some child under the age of ten who will eventually understand Brexit but not for several decades.

One obvious point. Millions voted to Remain and millions voted to Leave. The European Union must have had major virtues and major faults,

Full disclosure. In 1975 I strongly supported Britain remaining in what was usually called the Common Market. In 2016 I hesitatingly voted Brexit. From that point on Brexit needed to happen. If there had been second referendum and Britain had remained after voting to Leave it would have poisoned politics for decades. Democracy involves accepting that you sometimes lose. In 1997 John Major left a bottle of champagne for the Blairs and spent his free afternoon at the cricket - true style.

Scotland voted strongly to Remain and lost this is a serious problem for the United Kingdom. My guess -and it is only a guess - is that if Scotland gets independence future historians will see this as important

London voted strongly in favour of Remain while the rest of England voted strongly for Leave. I have no idea what this means but suspect future historians will find it significant.

A number of Remainers have told me that they do not believe in Referendums. There are some issues that need referendums. The referendum on changing the voting system was one example as was the one on Scottish independence. It would be a mistake to abandon referenda altogether.

In 1975 the party leaders supported Remain. This was especially important in Labour heartlands where Harold Wilson was trusted and liked - Harold wants us to Remain was a potent phrase, In 2016 no party leader had that kind of credibility. Make of this what you will,

Much of the generation that voted Leave in 1975 has died out. The Leave voters of 2016 are often people like myself who believed in a Common Market but were troubled by those wanting a United States of Europe. How can you have a United States of Europe when the Balkan states hate Austria, the Poles and Greeks hate the Germans and the French have never forgiven England for burning their greatest saint as a witch.

One last point. I may not understand 2021 but I have some understanding of a much bigger crisis from 1688-89. The Catholic James II was driven off the throne by supporters of William of Orange (William III) The supporters of James II (Jacobites) were accused of being French spies. The supporters of William III were accused of wanting to return to the days of Oliver Cromwell. In a few cases this was actually true and these cases were seized upon. In a few cases Remainers were unpatriotic and Leavers were racist but perhaps only a minority.. Incidentally the crisis of 1688 led to civil wars in 1715 and 1745, The crisis lasted - I have seen a letter from as late as 1770 in which a father warns a son visiting Rome to stay away from the Jacobite community. This was bigger than Brexit.

Another last point (that will please pedants) I have resented bring told that being against membership of the European Union I am against Europe. I love Europe. My favourite painter is Raphael, my favourite composer is Mozart, I love German white wine, French cheese and my reaction to young ladies with an Italian accent is a family joke,

But it's still a shit show.

 

[give_us_a_wave]

100% agree

what can we do though?

Absolutely nothing. Politics is dead. Reduced to a shouting match between toddlers & slogans for simpletons.

The simple fact that Boris Johnson is PM proves that without any doubt.

Anyone who doesn't think so just has to cast their mind back 7 years. If you'd said to anyone,anywhere that it was even a remote possibility you'd have been medicated for your own protection.

Brexit has killed politics. **** knows how it comes back from here.

Politicians have learned that all they need to do is avoid reality & invent something that polarises people. Anything will do.

During Brexit nobody discussed ANYTHING else despite the country needing action in numerous areas. If you can win the argument on a single issue & secure an election victory by doing it thats great.

It'll be something pointless. Something dragged out of their boring ****ing culture war narrative. They'll convince people that shit that doesn't in any way affect them & mostly only exists on social media is somehow vital to their identity as what-the-****ing-ever.

If I had money I'd **** off to a houseboat in Amsterdam tomorrow & live out my days. Or claim my Irish citizenship & go live with my uncle & wait for him to die & leave me the house.

The UK has the government it ****ing deserves.

Only thing to do is wait with our arse in the air for a few years until the US haven't got anything better on the go & decide to come & rape us & call it a trade deal.

Should take barely 25 years after that before people finally stop waving flags & have a look around.

Too ****ing late.

 

[Payne74]

I have been reluctant to post on this topic since I do not understand the 21st Century. My consolation is that neither does anybody else. - there may be some child under the age of ten who will eventually understand Brexit but not for several decades.

One obvious point. Millions voted to Remain and millions voted to Leave. The European Union must have had major virtues and major faults,

Full disclosure. In 1975 I strongly supported Britain remaining in what was usually called the Common Market. In 2016 I hesitatingly voted Brexit. From that point on Brexit needed to happen. If there had been second referendum and Britain had remained after voting to Leave it would have poisoned politics for decades. Democracy involves accepting that you sometimes lose. In 1997 John Major left a bottle of champagne for the Blairs and spent his free afternoon at the cricket - true style.

Scotland voted strongly to Remain and lost this is a serious problem for the United Kingdom. My guess -and it is only a guess - is that if Scotland gets independence future historians will see this as important

London voted strongly in favour of Remain while the rest of England voted strongly for Leave. I have no idea what this means but suspect future historians will find it significant.

A number of Remainers have told me that they do not believe in Referendums. There are some issues that need referendums. The referendum on changing the voting system was one example as was the one on Scottish independence. It would be a mistake to abandon referenda altogether.

In 1975 the party leaders supported Remain. This was especially important in Labour heartlands where Harold Wilson was trusted and liked - Harold wants us to Remain was a potent phrase, In 2016 no party leader had that kind of credibility. Make of this what you will,

Much of the generation that voted Leave in 1975 has died out. The Leave voters of 2016 are often people like myself who believed in a Common Market but were troubled by those wanting a United States of Europe. How can you have a United States of Europe when the Balkan states hate Austria, the Poles and Greeks hate the Germans and the French have never forgiven England for burning their greatest saint as a witch.

One last point. I may not understand 2021 but I have some understanding of a much bigger crisis from 1688-89. The Catholic James II was driven off the throne by supporters of William of Orange (William III) The supporters of James II (Jacobites) were accused of being French spies. The supporters of William III were accused of wanting to return to the days of Oliver Cromwell. In a few cases this was actually true and these cases were seized upon. In a few cases Remainers were unpatriotic and Leavers were racist but perhaps only a minority.. Incidentally the crisis of 1688 led to civil wars in 1715 and 1745, The crisis lasted - I have seen a letter from as late as 1770 in which a father warns a son visiting Rome to stay away from the Jacobite community. This was bigger than Brexit.

Another last point (that will please pedants) I have resented bring told that being against membership of the European Union I am against Europe. I love Europe. My favourite painter is Raphael, my favourite composer is Mozart, I love German white wine, French cheese and my reaction to young ladies with an Italian accent is a family joke,

You had me until you declared your love for Germany white wine

 

[bocadillo]

The Tories slipped into the election bill last week ( when no-one was looking due to the reshuffle ) a switch from PR to FPP for future mayoral & PCC elections. It'll give the Tories more metro mayor's.

How would PR work in a mayoral election?

 

[bocadillo]

there may be some child under the age of ten who will eventually understand Brexit but not for several decades.

If you take Global Warming into account I've heard that they may not be given the opportunity. Somebody above said that the UK gets the government it deserves. It seems to me that the whole world is about to get what it deserves.

my reaction to young ladies with an Italian accent is a family joke,

My father joined the army the day after the Führer topped himself. As a child it was my understanding that Hitler had heard he was coming and that was the reason for his demise. (Very young children do tend to believe what there parents tell them)

He spent much of the immediate post-war period in Italy. He often told me that I could have been half-Italian. This still disturbs me.

If I had money I'd **** off to a houseboat in Amsterdam tomorrow & live out my days

It's not too expensive to do this in England and I understand that similar 'advantages' are available here too.

 

[Blue Maniac]

How would PR work in a mayoral election?

Do you really imagine that he’s above cutting politicians into much smaller slices?

 

[bocadillo]

Do you really imagine that he’s above cutting politicians into much smaller slices?

Bacon, rather than sausages?

 

[Darth Vodka]

Good post from DG, I too am baffled by how Boris is popular and it must be that the Brexity types see him as a catalyst for change

Dark times are ahead and my hope is that in the dark and with demographic changes, a poorer Britain sees the EU as a positive and, once again, goes cap in hand to join, hopefully this time we won't go bankrupt again and get bailed out by the IMF

Maybe electoral reform will happen, I actually hope Labour lose again to seriously consider PR, but the way they are messing things up, Starmer might actually win, even though he's dull AF and won't mention Brexit obviously being shite