Ched Evans

[Lako42]

Purely hypothetical scenario here, but thought it would be an interesting discussion nonetheless.

Imagine Ched was more than good enough for our level and the club had made clear they were interested in signing him, what would be the opinion of the esteemed members of the forum (and not so esteemed)

Should the club wait for the appeal process to be completed? Has he done his time? No room for his type in the game?


Indulge me

 

[City Fan]

Luke McCormick and Lee Hughes (and possibly more that I can't remember), committed serious crimes and did their time in prison, and were allowed back in the game. There seems to be much more fuss about Ched Evans returning to the game than those two, for reasons I can't quite work out.

 

[Matt_B]

Luke McCormick and Lee Hughes (and possibly more that I can't remember), committed serious crimes and did their time in prison, and were allowed back in the game. There seems to be much more fuss about Ched Evans returning to the game than those two, for reasons I can't quite work out.

He hasn't served his time yet, he's still under watch. He's refused to show contrition or even remote acceptance that he was in the wrong. Even if he'd been innocent of rape, he was still massively in the wrong. I think that's why.

 

[Real Sharapova]

Wouldn't touch him with a bargepole. There is a possibilty that he might be found not guilty on appeal. What is not in dispute is that he doesn't think there was anything wrong in his behaviour that night, I would hope that most people feel it is not right to take advantage of a very drunk and not exactly concious young lady.

Anther point is half our sponsors, and a fair few fans would desert. I wouldn't feel comfortable with him being in a team I was cheering on.

 

[The Old Fox]

This is a really difficult question: not to answer, my answer is, "No!", but to justify. I believe that when a person has served their sentence, they should be free to restart their career and every young lady must now be aware that a night out with Mr Evans is to be considered carefully before making an acceptance.

The reason that I would not want him to play for Leicester is that being a footballer is still a job that affords kudos: undoubtedly, young men would admire his lifestyle and he is, to say the least, a poor choice of role model. Signing such a player would detract from the fine (?) reputation of our noble club.

 

[City Fan]

He hasn't served his time yet, he's still under watch. He's refused to show contrition or even remote acceptance that he was in the wrong. Even if he'd been innocent of rape, he was still massively in the wrong. I think that's why.

I understand all of that. I'm not supporting him at all.

But is that worse than driving drunk, killing two kids, and then showing remorse? I guess everyone must think so, hence the stronger reaction this time around.

I'm not suggesting the reaction has been over the top for Ched Evans...maybe that the reaction wasn't big enough for the others.

 

[bocadillo]

Wouldn't touch him with a bargepole.

I wouldn't touch him with your bargepole


...and for this reason

He's refused to show even remote acceptance that he was in the wrong..

...though in the modern football world the reason why he won't be back is more probably that

half our sponsors would desert.

Signing such a player would detract from the fine (?) reputation of our noble club.

I'm left wondering how long OF took to decide whether or not to include that doubting question mark.

 

[East Anglia Fox]

I understand all of that. I'm not supporting him at all.

But is that worse than driving drunk, killing two kids, and then showing remorse? I guess everyone must think so, hence the stronger reaction this time around.

I'm not suggesting the reaction has been over the top for Ched Evans...maybe that the reaction wasn't big enough for the others.

Surely you understand how society works now. Rape gets much, much more attention than killing people because we're obsessed with rape anyway. You don't have to look very far on the internet to find somebody somewhere talking about "rape culture" and how many rapists supposedly don't get convicted, and how many men love raping. Cosmopolitan (online) have articles about it one way or another every week.

So rape is something society was already talking about when the Ched Evans thing happened. Now every football club that expresses an interest in signing him gets an online petition, from people who probably don't even follow football ordinarily, forcing them not to sign him.

What makes this such an emotionally-charged issue is who the victim is: women. It's not people, it's not men, it's women.

There are activists whose only purpose in life is to make women feel like they are victims and second-class citizens who are conspired against by "patriarchy" so the Ched Evans case to them is nothing short of a Godsend. They want society to keep talking about this for as long as possible. These are the kind of people who say all sex without the word "yes" is rape, which pretty much makes everyone a rapist -- male or female -- including me.

 

[bocadillo]

Surely you understand how society works now. Rape gets much, much more attention than killing people because we're obsessed with rape anyway. You don't have to look very far on the internet to find somebody somewhere talking about "rape culture" and how many rapists supposedly don't get convicted, and how many men love raping. Cosmopolitan (online) have articles about it one way or another every week.

So rape is something society was already talking about when the Ched Evans thing happened. Now every football club that expresses an interest in signing him gets an online petition, from people who probably don't even follow football ordinarily, forcing them not to sign him.

What makes this such an emotionally-charged issue is who the victim is: women. It's not people, it's not men, it's women.

There are activists whose only purpose in life is to make women feel like they are victims and second-class citizens who are conspired against by "patriarchy" so the Ched Evans case to them is nothing short of a Godsend. They want society to keep talking about this for as long as possible. These are the kind of people who say all sex without the word "yes" is rape, which pretty much makes everyone a rapist -- male or female -- including me.

Are men not also raped?

If Ched Evans had raped a man would it make it more or less likely that he would be accepted back into the game?

 

[East Anglia Fox]

Are men not also raped?

If Ched Evans had raped a man would it make it more or less likely that he would be accepted back into the game?

Yeah but nobody cares about men being raped.

 

[bocadillo]

Yeah but nobody cares about men being raped.

Really?

So if Ched Evans had raped a man he would have been playing again already?

 

[SJN-Fox]

He hasn't served his time yet, he's still under watch. He's refused to show contrition or even remote acceptance that he was in the wrong. Even if he'd been innocent of rape, he was still massively in the wrong. I think that's why.

Looking at various stories about this, if he is innocent of rape than the only thing he's guilty of is having sex with a drunk person, hands up who's never done that?

Wouldn't touch him with a bargepole. There is a possibilty that he might be found not guilty on appeal. What is not in dispute is that he doesn't think there was anything wrong in his behaviour that night, I would hope that most people feel it is not right to take advantage of a very drunk and not exactly concious young lady.

Anther point is half our sponsors, and a fair few fans would desert. I wouldn't feel comfortable with him being in a team I was cheering on.

The CCTV footage of her entering the hotel shows her to be very conscious and only slightly drunk ... sober enough to remember that she left her pizza or kebab or whatever it was in the taxi and return to retrieve it. She then went to the hotel room and had sex with another man, who was cleared of rape, presumably because she was sober and conscious enough to consent. Ched Evans, enters the room and joins in whilst the night porter was listening at the door and he says that he did not hear any protests going on just adults appearing to be having a good time. At no point during any of the proceedings in this case either before or during the trial did the girl report her rape to the police. She was then posting on social media about her "big payday" coming up.

I accept that he has shown no remorse in this case, however, if you were prosecuted for something that you believed you did not do, would you show remorse. Would this not be seen as an admission of guilt? Especially with the appeal revue still in progress.

There is more to this case than meets the eye and whilst I don't condone what he has or hasn't done, if he wasn't a footballer he would have been back at work by now and we wouldn't even be talking about him.

 

[Mawsley]

Yeah but nobody cares about men being raped.

Excuse me?

As a victim of rape - I care.

 

[Miles Away]

From a purely business perspective, he wouldn't be a good signing for many clubss. Whatever attention and consequences he brings with him would outweigh the contribution he would make.

When the business side doesn't make sense the morality side is moot. Now SHOULD he be able to play? I haven't a clue.

 

[Matt_B]

Surely you understand how society works now. Rape gets much, much more attention than killing people because we're obsessed with rape anyway. You don't have to look very far on the internet to find somebody somewhere talking about "rape culture" and how many rapists supposedly don't get convicted, and how many men love raping. Cosmopolitan (online) have articles about it one way or another every week.

So rape is something society was already talking about when the Ched Evans thing happened. Now every football club that expresses an interest in signing him gets an online petition, from people who probably don't even follow football ordinarily, forcing them not to sign him.

What makes this such an emotionally-charged issue is who the victim is: women. It's not people, it's not men, it's women.

There are activists whose only purpose in life is to make women feel like they are victims and second-class citizens who are conspired against by "patriarchy" so the Ched Evans case to them is nothing short of a Godsend. They want society to keep talking about this for as long as possible. These are the kind of people who say all sex without the word "yes" is rape, which pretty much makes everyone a rapist -- male or female -- including me.

Wow. This is exactly why it's still such a hot topic.

 

[Lako42]

The replies in this thread are the reason I posted it in the 1st place.

A very divisive topic which actually contains no right or wrong answer.

I struggle with the concept of him not being able to ply his trade again, after all being a footballer is as valid as being a plumber if it's all you have known since leaving education.

The difficulty comes with the fact that he hasn't shown any remorse, and rightly so if he truly believes he is an innocent man in terms of the allegation he faced. However the penal system is built around rehabilitation, something which cannot happen if the offender is of the belief they are not in the wrong.

I don't see how a club can take him at this moment in time, he's still going through the system and as such getting a job and earning money is not the only aspect of the rehabilitation process, far from it.

The black and white of it is that no amount of petition signing tag alongs have the right to stop a person gaining employment after serving their time for a crime. As for not being aloud to play football because of the role model aspect, this is not even to be taken into consideration in reality, it is an intangible measure that cannot be the main basis of denying someone employment.

Maybe use the public nature of the job to educate young fans rather than pretend it isn't something that happens in life?

As is clear from the above, I haven't got a scooby.

 

[FryattFox]

if he wasn't a footballer he would have been back at work by now and we wouldn't even be talking about him.

Depends what career he was returning to. Plenty of professional careers wouldn't allow a convicted rapist to re-join the profession.

 

[City Fan]

Depends what career he was returning to. Plenty of professional careers wouldn't allow a convicted rapist to re-join the profession.

Boxing did.

 

[spionfox]

As for not being aloud to play football because of the role model aspect.......

Shhhhhh!

 

[Nottingham Fox]

Looking at various stories about this, if he is innocent of rape than the only thing he's guilty of is having sex with a drunk person, hands up who's never done that?



The CCTV footage of her entering the hotel shows her to be very conscious and only slightly drunk ... sober enough to remember that she left her pizza or kebab or whatever it was in the taxi and return to retrieve it. She then went to the hotel room and had sex with another man, who was cleared of rape, presumably because she was sober and conscious enough to consent. Ched Evans, enters the room and joins in whilst the night porter was listening at the door and he says that he did not hear any protests going on just adults appearing to be having a good time. At no point during any of the proceedings in this case either before or during the trial did the girl report her rape to the police. She was then posting on social media about her "big payday" coming up.

I accept that he has shown no remorse in this case, however, if you were prosecuted for something that you believed you did not do, would you show remorse. Would this not be seen as an admission of guilt? Especially with the appeal revue still in progress.

There is more to this case than meets the eye and whilst I don't condone what he has or hasn't done, if he wasn't a footballer he would have been back at work by now and we wouldn't even be talking about him.

I'm with you SJN. Good post.