Ched Evans

[East Anglia Fox]

It doesn't matter how drunk she was, is she didn't give consent, or was deemed incapable of giving consent, then it is rape. This is why it needs changing from an attitude of "no means no" to "yes means yes".

Can you please elaborate on how you think consent works? Because in real life men and women don't normally say to each other "Shall we have sex?" and then wait for a yes or no. This is not how sex works in the real world, and you know it isn't. I cannot imagine every time you've had sex with a woman she's literally said the word "yes" before you've proceeded to have sex with her. Normally no words come into it at all.

 

[Nottingham Fox]

But the fact that others have returned doesn't mean the same mistakes should keep being made. You say she claims she didn't consent; she wasn't in a position to consent, the jury was clear in its decision on that.

She wasn't in a position to consent, but was able to return to the taxi to remember her take away food, and able to walk 'normally' in extremely high heels upon entering the hotel. She was also able to have sex with another man who was cleared of raping her - so consensual sex. All seems a bit odd to me.

 

[Northants_Fox]

Why is this thread in the Leicester City forum and not General Chat?

good point!!

 

[Blaarev]

good point!!

Never mind. It has been moved now ;-)

 

[SJN-Fox]

Interesting that she wasn't in a condition to consent to one but was to another

 

[ThaiSweetChilli]

It doesn't matter how drunk she was, is she didn't give consent, or was deemed incapable of giving consent, then it is rape. This is why it needs changing from an attitude of "no means no" to "yes means yes".

It you aren't planning on taking advantage of somebody then I really can't see why anyone would have an issue with this. It's far too easy to try to attach blame to the woman because it makes us uncomfortable as men to think that "one of our own" would do something so vile.

I wouldn't get a second chance as a teacher, and rightly so. Nor would a doctor or a police officer. Rightly or wrongly, footballers are held as role models for young adults. The lack of even a morsel of regret concerns me. He wouldn't have to admit he raped her, he could even accept that it has caused her a lot of emotional distress and see that his actions weren't right. He hasn't. I'm not convinced that, given another chance, he wouldn't do it again.

I see your numerous points. Yes, as a police officer/doctor/teacher etc., you wouldn't get a second chance.

re Ched, he's not apologising which could be because of a number of reasons. Maybe his legal team have asked him to say nothing? Maybe it messes up his appeal? Perhaps he's just certain that he did nothing wrong. Maybe he's a liar. Maybe she is. Point is we don't really know so for people to have a problem with him not apologising is ridiculous because no one knows why he isn't. Why should he apologise to the world for something he believes he didn't do, just like NP with that fan, he didn't apologise because he felt he was in the right.

I could care less that he's a man, I don't know or care for him - The fact that I'm a man doesn't mean I'm in his corner.

Most people online and in the media are jumping on Ched because of this but she might be a liar. After all, the decision was made by a jury. Jury's historically have made a lot of mistakes with convictions.

 

[East Anglia Fox]

Interesting that she wasn't in a condition to consent to one but was to another

Please refer to post #8.

 

[NYC Fox]

Interesting article in the Guardian today (written by a woman) suggesting that Football really should not be expected to make up for the fact the law is an ass. From a legal perspective, he has served his time and should be allowed to return to work. If anyone wants to sign a petition, they should be petitioning the legal system to pass harsher sentences for sexual criminals (you get 6 years for insurance fraud, but only 3 for raping a child)

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/jan/06/ched-evans-law-marina-hyde

I wouldn't want him playing for Leicester, mostly because he hasn't shown a scrap of remorse and because his family and 'fans' are attacking the victim online (she's had to change her identity 5 times). But regardless, the law and criminal justice system is a mess when it comes to sex crimes, IMO.

 

[Matt_B]

She wasn't in a position to consent, but was able to return to the taxi to remember her take away food, and able to walk 'normally' in extremely high heels upon entering the hotel. She was also able to have sex with another man who was cleared of raping her - so consensual sex. All seems a bit odd to me.

As I've said, I think he should have been found guilty as well.

 

[Matt_B]

Interesting article in the Guardian today (written by a woman) suggesting that Football really should not be expected to make up for the fact the law is an ass. From a legal perspective, he has served his time and should be allowed to return to work. If anyone wants to sign a petition, they should be petitioning the legal system to pass harsher sentences for sexual criminals (you get 6 years for insurance fraud, but only 3 for raping a child)

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/jan/06/ched-evans-law-marina-hyde

I wouldn't want him playing for Leicester, mostly because he hasn't shown a scrap of remorse and because his family and 'fans' are attacking the victim online (she's had to change her identity 5 times). But regardless, the law and criminal justice system is a mess when it comes to sex crimes, IMO.

He hasn't served his time.

 

[Nottingham Fox]

As I've said, I think he should have been found guilty as well.

So you disagree with the jury on one hand, and agree with them on another?

 

[Matt_B]

Can you please elaborate on how you think consent works? Because in real life men and women don't normally say to each other "Shall we have sex?" and then wait for a yes or no. This is not how sex works in the real world, and you know it isn't. I cannot imagine every time you've had sex with a woman she's literally said the word "yes" before you've proceeded to have sex with her. Normally no words come into it at all.

Because "assumed consent" is a ridiculous and dangerous idea. You are surely not ignorant enough to think that it has to be the very word "yes", but seeking positive consent isn't a bad thing. I don't understand why you think it would be?

 

[Matt_B]

So you disagree with the jury on one hand, and agree with them on another?

Yes, is that not allowed?

 

[East Anglia Fox]

Because "assumed consent" is a ridiculous and dangerous idea. You are surely not ignorant enough to think that it has to be the very word "yes", but seeking positive consent isn't a bad thing. I don't understand why you think it would be?

If you even need to seek consent in any kind of a verbalised way then it's almost a certainly that they don't want to have sex with you. I can't believe we're even having a debate like this. Have you ever had sex before?

 

[Nottingham Fox]

Yes, is that not allowed?

Yeah of course it is Matt, but you seem to be quite keen to point out the fact that the jury found Ched guilty so therefore it definitely happened, he definitely raped her, but the same jury found the other man not guilty, but you think it's wrong and should have been found guilty. On that basis, Ched could conceivably be innocent?

 

[SJN-Fox]

Please refer to post #8.

Still none the wiser.

 

[Mawsley]

I didn't report my rape...does that automatically make the guilty party innocent because I clearly must have been asking for it? I didn't shout or fight...in fact I didn't tell anyone until last year, a full 34 years after it'd taken place.

And if I'd been drunk at the time, that would have made it OK would it? If I'd had consensual sex with someone else while drunk but then as alcohol kicked in someone else had climbed on board, that's fine is it?

Some of you seriously need to grow the **** up.

 

[East Anglia Fox]

I didn't report my rape...does that automatically make the guilty party innocent because I clearly must have been asking for it? I didn't shout or fight...in fact I didn't tell anyone until last year, a full 34 years after it'd taken place.

And if I'd been drunk at the time, that would have made it OK would it? If I'd had consensual sex with someone else while drunk but then as alcohol kicked in someone else had climbed on board, that's fine is it?

Some of you seriously need to grow the **** up.

I wish people did care. I wasn't saying at any point I didn't care; I was just expressing my view that British -- and probably Western -- society thinks rape is something a man does to a woman and that's all it ever is. Obviously I think that's not okay, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up.

 

[spionfox]

I was just expressing my view that British -- and probably Western -- society thinks rape is something a man does to a woman and that's all it ever is.

I am part of British society and I do NOT think that at all. You are out of touch IMHO.

 

[Macky]

I was just expressing my view that British -- and probably Western -- society thinks rape is something a man does to a woman and that's all it ever is.

That's a very telling statement right there, a statement that I couldn't disagree more with.