Ched Evans

[Matt_B]

Looking at various stories about this, if he is innocent of rape than the only thing he's guilty of is having sex with a drunk person, hands up who's never done that?



The CCTV footage of her entering the hotel shows her to be very conscious and only slightly drunk ... sober enough to remember that she left her pizza or kebab or whatever it was in the taxi and return to retrieve it. She then went to the hotel room and had sex with another man, who was cleared of rape, presumably because she was sober and conscious enough to consent. Ched Evans, enters the room and joins in whilst the night porter was listening at the door and he says that he did not hear any protests going on just adults appearing to be having a good time. At no point during any of the proceedings in this case either before or during the trial did the girl report her rape to the police. She was then posting on social media about her "big payday" coming up.

I accept that he has shown no remorse in this case, however, if you were prosecuted for something that you believed you did not do, would you show remorse. Would this not be seen as an admission of guilt? Especially with the appeal revue still in progress.

There is more to this case than meets the eye and whilst I don't condone what he has or hasn't done, if he wasn't a footballer he would have been back at work by now and we wouldn't even be talking about him.

I'm not sure what you mean about not reporting it to the police? The summing up notes I read said she reported it the next day.

 

[SJN-Fox]

I'm not sure what you mean about not reporting it to the police? The summing up notes I read said she reported it the next day.

She didn't report the rape. She went to the police to report that her drink had been spiked and that her phone and handbag were missing. The police took up the investigation from there, the result of which was that both men were charged with rape.

 

[Matt_B]

Surely you understand how society works now. Rape gets much, much more attention than killing people because we're obsessed with rape anyway. You don't have to look very far on the internet to find somebody somewhere talking about "rape culture" and how many rapists supposedly don't get convicted, and how many men love raping. Cosmopolitan (online) have articles about it one way or another every week.

So rape is something society was already talking about when the Ched Evans thing happened. Now every football club that expresses an interest in signing him gets an online petition, from people who probably don't even follow football ordinarily, forcing them not to sign him.

What makes this such an emotionally-charged issue is who the victim is: women. It's not people, it's not men, it's women.

There are activists whose only purpose in life is to make women feel like they are victims and second-class citizens who are conspired against by "patriarchy" so the Ched Evans case to them is nothing short of a Godsend. They want society to keep talking about this for as long as possible. These are the kind of people who say all sex without the word "yes" is rape, which pretty much makes everyone a rapist -- male or female -- including me.

I feel I need to respond to this in more depth that I did previously. I can't find your age anywhere but you joined here in 2004, so I'll assume you are at least 11 years old, though possibly not more.

The reason that rape is such a hot topic, isn't due to some "activists" trying to make women feel bad about themselves. It's because men keep raping women and women aren't taken seriously about it. When they report it to the police women routinely report that they are made to feel like the criminal themselves, like they did something wrong to bring about the situation

Five years ago, they discovered 11,000 untested rape kits in a warehouse in the US. 11,000! Only now are they getting through them. Of the 2,000 they have tested so far, 750 have come up as a match with other known rapists in the system. That's 750 women who were raped or who haven't had the closure they deserve and perhaps needn't have been had the reports been treated as seriously as other crimes. The other 1,250, by the way, haven't been ruled out as rape, they just haven't matched any existing rapists on file.

We argue for the right to be presumed innocent for the accused and yet routinely deny rape accusers the right to be presumed innocent of lying. The amount of times I hear people argue it wouldn't have happened had she not been drunk is staggering and completely fails to see the point. Moreover, it excuses the men who act like dicks.

Ched Evans is guilty of raping that women. That is the only fact that matters. Until an appeal decides otherwise, then that is the only thing that should be considered. The jury clearly felt that there was enough evidence to convict him. The judge clearly felt likewise and said as much in his summing up.

My only concern with the whole situation is why his friend wasn't also found guilty as I believe he should have been.

It terrifies me that I am bringing up a daughter in a world that contains boys like yourself who have thoughts that align with your post.

 

[pork pie fox]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30681333

 

[Matt_B]

She didn't report the rape. She went to the police to report that her drink had been spiked and that her phone and handbag were missing. The police took up the investigation from there, the result of which was that both men were charged with rape.

Have you read this?

https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

 

[Matt_B]

I'm with you SJN. Good post.

Would you be happy if he joined us and your son wanted a poster of him on his wall?

 

[Northants_Fox]

He has been found guilty by a jury of his peers. He has appealed against the verdict and the appeal was thrown out.

The conviction is now being reviewed, but this is not an appeal and there is no suggestion that there is any new evidence which will overturn the conviction.

It is comical that people think they know more about the facts of the case than the judges and jury who heard all of the evidence.

So - let him rot in whatever pit of vile evil he created for himself and never should be play for a professional football club again.

 

[Lako42]

So - let him rot in whatever pit of vile evil he created for himself and never should be play for a professional football club again.

Should he be allowed to work again?

 

[Northants_Fox]

Of course he should......But in my view, not in a position whereby he has influence over children's or societies opinions or views. There are obvious scenarios whereby persons convicted of criminal offenses should be restricted from what they do and who they come into contact with in future. This is a clear example of this. I do not want my children looking at him and forming a view that what he has done is in any way acceptable.

 

[SJN-Fox]

Have you read this?

https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

Yes, I have. It doesn't say that she reported being raped.

 

[Lako42]

Of course he should......But in my view, not in a position whereby he has influence over children's or societies opinions or views. There are obvious scenarios whereby persons convicted of criminal offenses should be restricted from what they do and who they come into contact with in future. This is a clear example of this. I do not want my children looking at him and forming a view that what he has done is in any way acceptable.

Then we as a football community need to ensure the example is used in the correct way.

The common suggestion of getting him away from the public eye is in my opinion the wrong one.

Whatever he does he will be remembered for this, you either use it as an opportunity to educate or you sweep it under the carpet, which clearly does nobody any good.

Can you name any job where you can guarantee he wont come into contact with women? At least in a public role he'll be under scrutiny at all times.

We should be using this type of opportunity to educate with the aim being to eradicate.

 

[ThaiSweetChilli]

He should be able to re-enter football. And too right he's not apologising - it's basically an admition of guilt and he maintains his innocence.

It's been mentioned that the lady in question was two and a half times over the drink-drive limit - think about it, is it really that much?

The drink-drive limit depends on your height/weight etc., but generally as a rule of thumb two pints of regular beer/larger tips you just over the limit. We don't know what she was drinking whether it was larger, wine or spirits but if it was pints that would be 5. Depending on her drinking prowess, of which we know nothing, does 5 pints sound like an amount which would render you not in your own senses? I understand some it would, but also some it wouldn't. The thing is that no one will ever know how drunk she was or wasn't. It is her word against his. There are way too many people who seem a lot drunker than they are and the other way round.

Just seen that Oldham may have agreed a deal with him. Good for him. Everyone deserves a second chance.

 

[Hector]

Have you read this?

https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

Having read all that, I confess to feeling uneasy about the conviction.

 

[Nottingham Fox]

Would you be happy if he joined us and your son wanted a poster of him on his wall?

It wouldn't bother me too much if i'm being honest.

As SJN has pointed out, there is more to this than meets the eye. He had sex with some bird who claims she didn't consent. Only they know what really happened. He's stood his ground, and said he did nothing wrong. There is every possibility that this may be the case. I know that if I knew deep down I was innocent of something I was accused of doing, even if found guilty in a court of law I would also show no remorse or offer an apology.

I'm certainly not going to let it worry me too much. Marlon King was a repeat offender. He may have said sorry every time, but he went and did it again so was his remorse ever genuine? There was never any of this hype over him returning to football.

 

[Northants_Fox]

Then we as a football community need to ensure the example is used in the correct way.

The common suggestion of getting him away from the public eye is in my opinion the wrong one.

Whatever he does he will be remembered for this, you either use it as an opportunity to educate or you sweep it under the carpet, which clearly does nobody any good.

Can you name any job where you can guarantee he wont come into contact with women? At least in a public role he'll be under scrutiny at all times.

We should be using this type of opportunity to educate with the aim being to eradicate.

I think most people's views would have been different if he himself had come out - been public in offering a sincere apology to the victim and been the voice to show that this type of violence against women is unacceptable. If he had done that and made himself an example, then I don't think this would have reached the levels of objection that we have seen regarding him.

It is still the case that he was sentenced to serve 5 years. He is out only on licence for not causing problems whilst serving this conviction - he is not a free man and is still under licence. To be in that position, show no remorse or no inclination to talk out about why what he did was wrong - well, its a totally unacceptable in my view for him to then be working in a capacity whereby he is a role model and influences children's opinions and views.

And I didn't suggest that he should work with women - I suggested that I do not think our children should be looking towards someone like him as a role model and be under the impression that what he did was anything other than incomprehensible.

 

[Matt_B]

He should be able to re-enter football. And too right he's not apologising - it's basically an admition of guilt and he maintains his innocence.

It's been mentioned that the lady in question was two and a half times over the drink-drive limit - think about it, is it really that much?

The drink-drive limit depends on your height/weight etc., but generally as a rule of thumb two pints of regular beer/larger tips you just over the limit. We don't know what she was drinking whether it was larger, wine or spirits but if it was pints that would be 5. Depending on her drinking prowess, of which we know nothing, does 5 pints sound like an amount which would render you not in your own senses? I understand some it would, but also some it wouldn't. The thing is that no one will ever know how drunk she was or wasn't. It is her word against his. There are way too many people who seem a lot drunker than they are and the other way round.

Just seen that Oldham may have agreed a deal with him. Good for him. Everyone deserves a second chance.

It doesn't matter how drunk she was, is she didn't give consent, or was deemed incapable of giving consent, then it is rape. This is why it needs changing from an attitude of "no means no" to "yes means yes".

It you aren't planning on taking advantage of somebody then I really can't see why anyone would have an issue with this. It's far too easy to try to attach blame to the woman because it makes us uncomfortable as men to think that "one of our own" would do something so vile.

I wouldn't get a second chance as a teacher, and rightly so. Nor would a doctor or a police officer. Rightly or wrongly, footballers are held as role models for young adults. The lack of even a morsel of regret concerns me. He wouldn't have to admit he raped her, he could even accept that it has caused her a lot of emotional distress and see that his actions weren't right. He hasn't. I'm not convinced that, given another chance, he wouldn't do it again.

 

[Matt_B]

It wouldn't bother me too much if i'm being honest.

As SJN has pointed out, there is more to this than meets the eye. He had sex with some bird who claims she didn't consent. Only they know what really happened. He's stood his ground, and said he did nothing wrong. There is every possibility that this may be the case. I know that if I knew deep down I was innocent of something I was accused of doing, even if found guilty in a court of law I would also show no remorse or offer an apology.

I'm certainly not going to let it worry me too much. Marlon King was a repeat offender. He may have said sorry every time, but he went and did it again so was his remorse ever genuine? There was never any of this hype over him returning to football.

But the fact that others have returned doesn't mean the same mistakes should keep being made. You say she claims she didn't consent; she wasn't in a position to consent, the jury was clear in its decision on that.

 

[Northants_Fox]

He should be able to re-enter football. And too right he's not apologising - it's basically an admition of guilt and he maintains his innocence.

It's been mentioned that the lady in question was two and a half times over the drink-drive limit - think about it, is it really that much?

The drink-drive limit depends on your height/weight etc., but generally as a rule of thumb two pints of regular beer/larger tips you just over the limit. We don't know what she was drinking whether it was larger, wine or spirits but if it was pints that would be 5. Depending on her drinking prowess, of which we know nothing, does 5 pints sound like an amount which would render you not in your own senses? I understand some it would, but also some it wouldn't. The thing is that no one will ever know how drunk she was or wasn't. It is her word against his. There are way too many people who seem a lot drunker than they are and the other way round.

Just seen that Oldham may have agreed a deal with him. Good for him. Everyone deserves a second chance.

It's interesting to use this hypothetical discussion as a barometer of the moral standards from the members on this forum.

 

[Matt_B]

It wouldn't bother me too much if i'm being honest.

As SJN has pointed out, there is more to this than meets the eye. He had sex with some bird who claims she didn't consent. Only they know what really happened. He's stood his ground, and said he did nothing wrong. There is every possibility that this may be the case. I know that if I knew deep down I was innocent of something I was accused of doing, even if found guilty in a court of law I would also show no remorse or offer an apology.

I'm certainly not going to let it worry me too much. Marlon King was a repeat offender. He may have said sorry every time, but he went and did it again so was his remorse ever genuine? There was never any of this hype over him returning to football.

Also, heaven forbid in a few years your daughter was in this position, would you take such a lenient view, or state it was only her "claim"? This isn't just you, my dad made a similar comment but couldn't answer how he'd feel the other way round.

 

[Blaarev]

Why is this thread in the Leicester City forum and not General Chat?