Speculation Chong Tae-Se

[Blaby blue blood]

He was born in Japan, he was eligble to play for Japan. He chose North Korea. Why shouldn't he be judged for being a part of the vile mob who prop Kim-Jung Il up? He certainly will be being showered with all of the favour that the regime can offer on his visits, favours that are bought off the back of the slavery of the country's people. How on earth is that ok?

At least King, Hughes and Bowyer have been punished, and stopped doing their crimes.

I never said what North Korea does is OK. I think it is very unfair to say that he has anything to do with it and even that he agrees with what is happening. He has taken an opportunity to play against the best players in the world on a global scale, that is all.

What about supporting English players? Players who represent a country run by men who happily send other peoples sons, under equipped, to die at war while they sit safely at home with their own families and sons eating the best food and drinking the best wine? Is that OK?

 

[camberwell fox]

Oh sweet baby jebus....


What's left tae-se?

 

[David Gwilliam]

Never mind football.
I want to know if he is a true North Korean and opposed to capitalism, imperialism, trotskyism and opportunism of all hues. If he is, he's alright with me.
I presume he'll have to play left wing.

As a North Korean he is probably thoroughly enjoying all the pleasures of capitalism that he would not get back home. Footballers have never seemed to be averse to a bit of opportunism.

 

[Jeff]

As a North Korean he is probably thoroughly enjoying all the pleasures of capitalism that he would not get back home.

He's never lived in North Korea. He was born in Japan.

 

[David Gwilliam]

I never said what North Korea does is OK. I think it is very unfair to say that he has anything to do with it and even that he agrees with what is happening. He has taken an opportunity to play against the best players in the world on a global scale, that is all.

What about supporting English players? Players who represent a country run by men who happily send other peoples sons, under equipped, to die at war while they sit safely at home with their own families and sons eating the best food and drinking the best wine? Is that OK?

How is a rant about British defence policy relevant to whether Leicester City should sign Chong Tae-Se?

 

[Biffa Bacon]

As a North Korean he is probably thoroughly enjoying all the pleasures of capitalism that he would not get back home. Footballers have never seemed to be averse to a bit of opportunism.

I can confirm that he'll enjoy all the pleasures back at home in Japan.

 

[Ian Marshall]

How is a rant about British defence policy relevant to whether Leicester City should sign Chong Tae-Se?

In isolation, it isn't. Take a look at the context though and its a decent enough point being raised. No individual should be judged according to the acts of the detached, empowered elite (whether elected or not).

You're an interesting and perceptive poster, DG. I'm surprised this one has eluded you.

 

[David Gwilliam]

In isolation, it isn't. Take a look at the context though and its a decent enough point being raised. No individual should be judged according to the acts of the detached, empowered elite (whether elected or not).

You're an interesting and perceptive poster, DG. I'm surprised this one has eluded you.

I almost gave a detailed answer to Blaby Blueblood asking him for evidence that any "English" leader has sent troops into a war "happily". The last time I could think of was the Duke of Buckingham in 1626. In recent times no serious opponent of either Thatcher or Blair has accused them of being "happy"about going to war. I was going to go on and point out that even over Suez, a most immoral war, Eden was never accused of being "happy" about it.

Your comments Ian are elegant and considered. The point you made "No individual should be judged according to the acts of the detached, empowered elite (whether elected or not)." is a serious one. If BabyBlueblood was making that point he did not make it very well. Instead we got what Aneurin Bevan liked to call "an emotional spasm."

 

[Redditch Fox]

I almost gave a detailed answer to Blaby Blueblood asking him for evidence that any "English" leader has sent troops into a war "happily". The last time I could think of was the Duke of Buckingham in 1626. In recent times no serious opponent of either Thatcher or Blair has accused them of being "happy"about going to war. I was going to go on and point out that even over Suez, a most immoral war, Eden was never accused of being "happy" about it.

Your comments Ian are elegant and considered. The point you made "No individual should be judged according to the acts of the detached, empowered elite (whether elected or not)." is a serious one. If BabyBlueblood was making that point he did not make it very well. Instead we got what Aneurin Bevan liked to call "an emotional spasm."

Nonetheless they eat dogs don't they?

 

[spionfox]

Instead we got what Aneurin Bevan liked to call "an emotional spasm."

I suppose that's a bit like an orgasm. No?

 

[jb5000]

No individual should be judged according to the acts of the detached, empowered elite (whether elected or not).

In isolation, of course not. However, when somebody freely chooses to associate themselves with the elite how can they claim to be detached?

 

[Ian Marshall]

In isolation, of course not. However, when somebody freely chooses to associate themselves with the elite how can they claim to be detached?

In the case of club football, you may have a point. Any footballer, if good enough will have a number of potential suitors and can opt to make a decision based on any one of a vast number of factors, including, if he chooses, the moral standing, principles, political standing etc of any respective employer (or the individuals on the board of the club)

In terms of international football, I'd argue that most players don't have that choice. Sure, a player could refuse to play for his country, but it could be the case that that really does not go down well in Korea. Personal pride must come in to it too. This is, afterall, his career and one could reasonably assume that he wants to test himself at the highest level possible. He can hardly decide he doesn't like North Korea and its politics and instead opt to play for Switzerland, can he?

I do see where you are coming from in a way, but I don't think its as clear cut as playing for a football team = ringing endorsement or championing of the owners' causes/politics/views.

 

[Jeff]

He can hardly decide he doesn't like North Korea and its politics and instead opt to play for Switzerland, can he?

He was born in Japan. His parents are from South Korea. He chose to play for North Korea, despite having never lived there.

 

[alli]

Stop banging on about the guy ,i think we should give him a go ,providing he isnt a bully boy like wayne(we dont need them.

 

[Biffa Bacon]

He was born in Japan. His parents are from South Korea. He chose to play for North Korea, despite having never lived there.

He chose to play for north Korea because any other way he'd never get into a world cup squad. I'd even play for Scotland if they could get me on the pitch at a world cup.

 

[alli]

It all goes to prove that he uses his brains then good for him.

 

[Ian Marshall]

He was born in Japan. His parents are from South Korea. He chose to play for North Korea, despite having never lived there.

This is a bit of a non-point unless both Japan and South Korea tried to 'pick' him to represent their national team. I also made the point that there are bound to be a number of factors in making a decision about 'who' to play for, even where the situation is such that there is a decision to be made.

I consider myself to be English but could probably qualify to play for Scotland and given the opportunity (which obviously is not going to happen) I would jump at it, as I would to play at that level. That is not so say that I give active or tacit support to whichever political party or movement the Scotland selectors are most aligned with or the actions of the Scottish as a nation and people over the past few hundred years.

I don't actually believe that you disagree with me. Feel free to focus on specifics that have no bearing on the actual argument though! I do like this forum, but often potentially decent debates get derailed very quickly by irascible, argumentative so and so's so who don't necessarily disagree or have any opinion, but arm themselves with the twin guns of pedantry and obfuscation and their insatiable urge for confrontation and disagreement who sideline what is actually being discussed.

Just my tuppence worth and I freely admit to being very tired, still quite hungover and finding it hard to let go of yesterday's irritability having found that someone had driven across my front garden, destroying a foot tall retaining fence, a four foot fushsia and several asiatic lilies. This really annoyed me and I sense it is probably behind some of these posts!

 

[Jeff]

He chose to play for north Korea because any other way he'd never get into a world cup squad.

When he first played for them it had been 40 years since they'd played in the World Cup finals and I don't think anyone expected them to qualify for the 2010 finals. So I don't think it was anything to do with the World Cup, it was more to do with his attachment to the country, despite not having lived there.


I'm not saying I don't think we should sign him, just that I think the people who say he had no choice about playing for North Korea, or that he did it to play at the WC finals are not aware of his history.


This is what it says about him on Wikipedia:

"Jong is a third generation South Korean who was born in Nagoya, Japan to second generation South Korean parents with South Korean citizenship. His mother identified herself as a North Korean and sent him to attend a private school in Japan run by Chongryon, a group closely tied to the North Korean government – where he started football at its elementary school club. He later attended Korea University, a private university in Tokyo also funded by Chongryon"

So it sounds like he was brainwashed by the North Koreans from a young age.

 

[alli]

Ian i like your reply ,it makes loads of common sence to me ,but i would add that i spent a year in south korea and i found that was a difficult place to get country to to make a good career for yourself ,so i say if the guy has a talent he should use wherever he gets his chance.

by the way ian it sounds like you had a sh.... day yesterday i hope you make the guy pay for the damage.

 

[Ian Marshall]

Ian i like your reply ,it makes loads of common sence to me ,but i would add that i spent a year in south korea and i found that was a difficult place to get country to to make a good career for yourself ,so i say if the guy has a talent he should use wherever he gets his chance.

by the way ian it sounds like you had a sh.... day yesterday i hope you make the guy pay for the damage.

I don't know who did it mate.

The only thing I know is that the car was probably quite heavy and that he/she has decent tread on their tyres.

Its not the cost that bothers, me, they've not just knocked the fence, they've driven a few feet across my garden. No note or anything to say sorry. I was really pleased with that fuchsia, having grown it to a good size after nurturing it for 2 years now. I grew it from a plug plan about 3 inches tall when I got it. It will probably come back I suppose.

The fence had taken me ages to sort out as well, I got a bit perfectionist and anal about putting it in.

I've also lost my bank card this week and am losing in my (fast becoming epic) struggle against the ants of Maidstone. Its been a pretty shit week.

Got two games off cricket lined up this weekend. I can already sense two ducks and maybe an injury.