EU referendum

[Blaarev]

.




Depressing.
John Bolton gave a thoughtful interview without any childish language.

I agree. He didn't use childish language. Doesn't make him more credible though.

 

[Dour]

Depressing.
John Bolton gave a childish interview without any thoughtful language.

Depressing, but unsurprising.

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

Depressing, but unsurprising.

Nice display of hypocrisy there

 

[Miles Away]

.


Depressing.
John Bolton gave a thoughtful interview without any childish language.

Know much about Bolton David?

Your condescending tone would suggest so, but your implied opinion of the man suggests otherwise.

 

[give_us_a_wave]

It's all descended into dark comedy now on all sides.

Maybe,just maybe some good may come of all this if the public can finally stop being in denial about the fact that our politicians are all worthless ****s.It's been obvious for years but this is on another level entirely.Pants down in public time.
Doubtful though judging by various comments in certain parts of the internet.
Including a woman praising Boris for being honourable for standing down from the race in the face of his colleagues disapproval (!)
How anyone can interpret events like that is beyond me to be frank.Obviously it's nothing more than a thinly veiled pop at Corbyn but still.

Having that stumbling buffoon reduced to his proper place as an anonymous backbencher for some inbred Tory backwater is some small pleasure in the face of this laughable fiasco.
Although obviously the laughter will stop once we're all under the kitten heel of El Presidente May & her thought police.
Interesting times.

 

[OldGit]

 

[FryattFox]

Politician makes over inflated promise shocker.

By belittling a blatant lie as an "inflated promise", you're basically endorsing it. But as long as you're happy with that.

 

[Brown Nose]

By belittling a blatant lie as an "inflated promise", you're basically endorsing it. But as long as you're happy with that.

Both sides equally distorted the truth or exaggerated reality.

There are perfectly understandable and logical reasons for this.

Also, there were no manifestos as only one side of the argument had power before, during and after the result. So anyone with half a brain should have been able to work through it. When the government is peddling lies about Armageddon, not providing an alternative isn't realistic.

Neither side were sure about the future because neither side could be sure.

It's time to move on.

 

[David Gwilliam]

Know much about Bolton David?

Your condescending tone would suggest so, but your implied opinion of the man suggests otherwise.

The answer to your question is "yes". However, I am surprised you need assistance. To give Ike credit he clearly knew something about the man before posting about him.

I praised an interview John Bolton gave. The praise was genuine not sarcastic - how was this condescending?

It is important to "play the ball and not the man" - judge the opinion by its worth and t by whether or not you like the person giving it. At no point in that sentence did I give an opinion of John Bolton's career or character. I much prefer Remainers such as Alan Johnson and Caroline Flint to Michael Gove and Boris Johnson. However, I believe that on this issue Gove and Boris were right.

The passage below is for Miles who wanted "to know something about" John Bolton and I suggest those not interested skip it.

Obviously if you want "to know dates etc you can google him. However as you asked for some information. here it is. John Bolton is an American conservative who worked in the Reagan government and under both Presidents Bush. He is most notable for his brief spell as Ambassador to the UN under George W. He is a strong believer in gun rights and the place of religion in politics. He was a neo-conservative believing that middle eastern peoples deep down wanted American democracy. He also belied that if one Middle Eastern state e.g. Iraq could become Americanised the other states would follow.

Mr Bolton's views on the Middle East, gun laws and religion are not mine. However, they do not impact his views on the referendum result. Of course, as always I hold you Miles Ike and Mr Bolton in "unconditional regard".

 

[FryattFox]

Both sides equally distorted the truth or exaggerated reality.

I would say it wasn't really distorting the truth or exaggerating reality though; it was a downright lie. But potato/potato/lie.

Can you please provide one example of a Remain lie of the same magnitude?

So anyone with half a brain should have been able to work through it.

I think that's exactly the point.

It's clear that *most* people on this forum are sensible, articulate people. But many voters aren't. And that's where a xenophobic campaign with Nazi-esque posters and £350m lies becomes more populist.

It's time to move on.

But then what will we moan about?...

 

[Dour]

Both sides equally distorted the truth or exaggerated reality.

It's time to move on.

Except one side was telling outright lies. Unsurprisingly, supporters of that side want to quickly move on.

 

[Brown Nose]

Can you please provide one example of a Remain lie of the same magnitude?

World war three?

The "punishment" budget?

The outright lies from Cameron about renegotiating after the referendum when he'd been told that was impossible?

I could go on.

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

Quite hoping Theresa May does get the Tory leadership. Between her and Gove it's an easy choice. I think it'd be the best option. She's eurosceptic, but not entirely so.

 

[pork pie fox]

When Theresa May is seen as the best option, things aren't the best.

 

[homer]

When Theresa May is seen as the best option, the whole world has truly gone to shit.

Spot on

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

When Theresa May is seen as the best option, things aren't the best.

I'd agree but at the same time I don't think Cameron has been a particularly strong PM This complete farce is all on him. Spent years blaming the EU, promising this referendum to try and get himself in power. Then does an about face saying we're better off in despite having failed to get the reform he promised.

 

[Dour]

World war three?

The "punishment" budget?

The outright lies from Cameron about renegotiating after the referendum when he'd been told that was impossible?

I could go on.

Only leavers ever mentioned World War Three. So that would be a Leave lie.

I see instead of the punishment budget we have the abandonment of plans for deficit reduction. Two different ways of getting to the same point, but that was a fib from Osborne. Unsurprisingly.

Cameron could have negotiated after the referendum. I don't see why you think that is a lie.

 

[Brown Nose]

When Theresa May is seen as the best option, things aren't the best.

May is more right wing than Thatcher and considerably more so than Gove. Her re-branding is well underway though.

Cameron is closer to Blair than May.

My guess is that she'll be the Tory version of the disaster that was Gordon Brown.

 

[Brown Nose]

Only leavers ever mentioned World War Three. So that would be a Leave lie.

I see instead of the punishment budget we have the abandonment of plans for deficit reduction. Two different ways of getting to the same point, but that was a fib from Osborne. Unsurprisingly.

Cameron could have negotiated after the referendum. I don't see why you think that is a lie.

It seems like those on either side of this argument live on different planets sometimes.

 

[FryattFox]

World war three?

The "punishment" budget?

The outright lies from Cameron about renegotiating after the referendum when he'd been told that was impossible?

I could go on.

Really, BN?

The reference to WW3 was one reference that Cameron made as part of a speech that leaving would increase the possibility of war in Europe. That was an OPINION.

The punishment budget was a reference to the fact that most economists agreed that the UK would be worse off in the short (/medium) term, and this shortfall would have to be met. Again, this was an OPINION.

Having watched nearly all of the debates, Cameron et al made very few references, if any, to these two items. Yes, they referenced security and the economy, but not these two items. And at worse they were "exaggerated realities" as you say.

The £350m was peddled as FACT at every possible opportunity. Over and over again, despite various 'independent' bodies claiming it was factually inaccurate. It was a LIE.

And how you think it is the same magnitude is genuinely beyond me. I can find numerous references to the £350m on Leave soundbites and websites. It was the favourite fact for Leave politicians. The same is not true for the two similar examples you cite. Clearly we do live on different planets.

I'm not denying that there were not plenty of sensible reasons to vote Leave. Many intelligent people voted Leave. But I feel that many less informed people were lead astray by a blatant lie. And that's very different to the opinion and exaggeration which is currently synonymous with politicians.