Last DVD you bought?

[FIF]

I choose to exercise the fifth amendment at this stage

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

Im not saying what im doing isnt illegal, i've never said that, i know it is. The point I was trying to make, was that just because something is illegal it doesnt make it wrong to do it.

I wouldn't have watched it if i didnt torrent it so im not denying the production company any money and in fact ive bought far more DVDs since ive been watching torrents so im actually giving more to the companies. However, you replied saying that watching a movie without paying to the company is still stealing, so i replied saying that paying for a used DVD is stealing by that logic too.

I'm not a legal authoriy either but I think that if something is illegal, it's wrong to do it - that's why it's illegal. I think that the point you are trying to make is that some illegal things are more severe than others, such as killing somebody is more severe than stealing a packet of crisps from the local newsagent, but that doesn't mean that the lesser of the two evils is good does it?

Watching a movie without paying is, in the case of downloading torrents - stealing, paying for a used dvd isn't stealing, because you have handed over money for the item. I do worry about sense of logic there. I would hate to have to rely on it if I was perplexed by some sort of mathematical conundrum

 

[Profondo Rosso]

I'm not a legal authoriy either but I think that if something is illegal, it's wrong to do it - that's why it's illegal.

So its wrong to steal a life-saving drug for your own mother, because its illegal? :icon_roll

Laws are subjective rules formed by the government, what is right or wrong is also subjective

See my points earlier about postage stamps and cannabis.

Edit: and yes, i know downloading torrents is stealing in the eyes of the law, and paying for a second hand DVD is not stealing in the eyes of the law, but you are still not paying the production company for watchign the movie, which is what someone elses definition for why downloading torrents was for stealing earlier in this thread

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

So its wrong to steal a life-saving drug for your own mother, because its illegal? :icon_roll

Laws are subjective rules formed by the government, what is right or wrong is also subjective

See my points earlier about postage stamps and cannabis.

Well obviously if you have stolen it then yes it is wrong, the fact that you have good intentions for it's use doesn't negate the fact that you have broken the law by doing it.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

Well obviously if you have stolen it then yes it is wrong, the fact that you have good intentions for it's use doesn't negate the fact that you have broken the law by doing it.

But thats exactly my point, the law does not negate what is right or wrong in terms of morals, if it were then every country in every time period would have exactly the same laws.

Again, see my points earlier in this thread, that by your logic, sticking a stamp on an envelope upside down is morally wrong, and that cannabis is a morally wrong drug, where the far, far more addictive, harmful and dangerous drugs of alcohol and tobacco are not morally wrong.

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

But thats exactly my point, the law does not negate what is right or wrong in terms of morals, if it were then every country in every time period would have exactly the same laws.

Again, see my points earlier in this thread, that by your logic, sticking a stamp on an envelope upside down is morally wrong, and that cannabis is a morally wrong drug, where the far, far more addictive, harmful and dangerous drugs of alcohol and tobacco are not morally wrong.

What? Who gives a shit what's morally wrong and what isn't? The point I've been making is that whatever you may think it is, downloading torrents is illegal - and, on a side note - I personally would call it immoral as well.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

What? Who gives a shit what's morally wrong and what isn't? The point I've been making is that whatever you may think it is, downloading torrents is illegal - and, on a side note - I personally would call it immoral as well.

Well, we were obviously arguing different things then, because my whole argument was not about legality, i know it's illegal, my point was the ethics involved with it. To live you're whole life by what the law says is silly.

And sorry, i presumed when you kept saying wrong it was to do with morals.

 

[Macky]

if something is illegal, it's wrong to do it - that's why it's illegal.

Wow! That's an incredibly naive pov. :icon_eek: Things are illegal for all sorts of reasons and not always because they are 'wrong'.

I think that the point you are trying to make is that some illegal things are more severe than others, such as killing somebody is more severe than stealing a packet of crisps from the local newsagent, but that doesn't mean that the lesser of the two evils is good does it?

I don't think that was the point he was making at all, but how is stealing a packet of crisps 'evil'??? :icon_lol:

Watching a movie without paying is, in the case of downloading torrents - stealing, paying for a used dvd isn't stealing, because you have handed over money for the item.

Have you ever borrowed a CD or a DVD from one of your friends? That's also 'illegal', you're breaking the same laws as downloading a movie over a torrent.

I'm not 100% but I think it is technically 'illegal' to buy second hand DVDs for the same reason.

Well obviously if you have stolen it then yes it is wrong, the fact that you have good intentions for it's use doesn't negate the fact that you have broken the law by doing it.

So you think the 'right' thing to do is to let your Mother die? :icon_conf

 

[Profondo Rosso]

I'm not 100% but I think it is technically 'illegal' to buy second hand DVDs for the same reason.

Thats not actually illegal, i just used that as an example becuase people said torrenting was wrong because you were taking money from the company who made it. So i just added that buying second hand DVDs is wrong also then by that logic.

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

Well, we were obviously arguing different things then, because my whole argument was not about legality, i know it's illegal, my point was the ethics involved with it. To live you're whole life by what the law says is silly.

And sorry, i presumed when you kept saying wrong it was to do with morals.

I don't really see your argument at all, are you trying to say that it's morally correct to get something for free that you should be paying for?

I'm not exactly bothered, it's not something that affects me in any way at the moment. But if the scale of this sort of thing increases you never know what effect it may have on the entertainment industry in the future, but if it does have one you can bet it will be negative.

 

[Macky]

Thats not actually illegal, i just used that as an example becuase people said torrenting was wrong because you were taking money from the company who made it. So i just added that buying second hand DVDs is wrong also then by that logic.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. When you buy a DVD you are licensed to use it for your own private home use.
You aren't allowed to lend, copy or resell it.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

I don't really see your argument at all, are you trying to say that it's morally correct to get something for free that you should be paying for?

I'm not exactly bothered, it's not something that affects me in any way at the moment. But if the scale of this sort of thing increases you never know what effect it may have on the entertainment industry in the future, but if it does have one you can bet it will be negative.

Im not saying its morally right at all, my argument was that what i was doing, which was watching movies for free by downloading, movies which i would not have seen and certianly wouldnt have paid for (even before i downloaded i still never bought a DVD unless i knew i actually liked the movie so i could watch it again) and then maybe actually buying the DVD if i liked it, i did not consider to be morally wrong, despite the fact that i knew it was illegal.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

I wouldn't be so sure of that. When you buy a DVD you are licensed to use it for your own private home use.
You aren't allowed to lend, copy or resell it.

Im pretty sure its legal to re-sell, as long as it's inside the EU. I may be wrong though, copyright laws are funny things

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

Wow! That's an incredibly naive pov. :icon_eek: Things are illegal for all sorts of reasons and not always because they are 'wrong'.

Well if you wish to enlighten me then please do.

I don't think that was the point he was making at all, but how is stealing a packet of crisps 'evil'??? :icon_lol:

I didn't say it was evil, that was just a figure of speech. The point I was making with that example was that just because one thing is a more serious crime than the other, doesn't mean that the less serious of the two is a crime that it's okay to commit.

Have you ever borrowed a CD or a DVD from one of your friends? That's also 'illegal', you're breaking the same laws as downloading a movie over a torrent.

I haven't actually :icon_lol: (Games maybe...) If that is the case then I'd be suprirsed, does this mean that renting films out is also against the law? If so companies like Blockbuster must be quaking in their boots..

I wouldn't really say that borrowing someone's dvd which they have already purchased is a major crime and I would wager most big film producer would be more worried about these torrents, which people are capable of sharing with millions of other people the world over. A physical item can only be handed between two people at any one time and it's not like you are able to keep the film if you are just borrowing it. I guess we go back to the 'lesser of two evils' thing again with this..

I'm not 100% but I think it is technically 'illegal' to buy second hand DVDs for the same reason.

In which case there are a number of big name companies that must be breaking the law, I would like to read the law on that, if I was really that bothered about it for it to be worth the time to look up.

So you think the 'right' thing to do is to let your Mother die? :icon_conf

I didn't say that either. If I were in that position I would steal the drug but that doesn't make it right in the eyes of the law.

 

[Macky]

does this mean that renting films out is also against the law? If so companies like Blockbuster must be quaking in their boots..

It is against the law for the likes of you or I, but not for companies like Blockbusters, who purchase their DVDs under different licensing terms.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

I haven't actually :icon_lol: (Games maybe...) If that is the case then I'd be suprirsed, does this mean that renting films out is also against the law? If so companies like Blockbuster must be quaking in their boots..

I wouldn't really say that borrowing someone's dvd which they have already purchased is a major crime and I would wager most big film producer would be more worried about these torrents, which people are capable of sharing with millions of other people the world over. A physical item can only be handed between two people at any one time and it's not like you are able to keep the film if you are just borrowing it. I guess we go back to the 'lesser of two evils' thing again with this..

Producers would be more concerned about torrents because of the sheer number of people using them. Renting is legal, becuase Blockbuster and places liek that have a licence to do it, though renting without a licence is illegal.

And how is borrowing someone's DVD any worse, than downloading someone's DVD? And its not about borrowing, becuase i never keep the films after i watch them or else your disc space would be full up pretty damn quickly

 

[Profondo Rosso]

Well if you wish to enlighten me then please do.

Well, this is arguable, but cannabis is illegal, becuase its a natural plant and therefore if it were legal the government couldnt tax it.

Its illegal for a policeman/woman to refuse to let you piss in their hat if you ask them, no idea what the **** that ones about, but its certiantly not because its wrong for policeman to not want urine on their head for the rest of the day

 

[Jeff]

cannabis is illegal, becuase its a natural plant and therefore if it were legal the government couldnt tax it.

Of course they could tax it, just like they tax tobacco.

Do you really think as many people would grow their own if they could buy it as easily as cigarettes?

 

[TornadoShaunUK]

Producers would be more concerned about torrents because of the sheer number of people using them. Renting is legal, becuase Blockbuster and places liek that have a licence to do it, though renting without a licence is illegal.

And how is borrowing someone's DVD any worse, than downloading someone's DVD? And its not about borrowing, becuase i never keep the films after i watch them or else your disc space would be full up pretty damn quickly

But there are people who do have a whole stash of films that they have downloaded illegally from the internet for free and in so doing have cost these companies millions by sharing these files with others, that's how you costing money to the producers.

I don't believe for a second that you wouldn't buy a dvd or go to the cinema if these things weren't so freely (no pun intended) available off the internet. If I'm honest I also don't believe that you would download these things with the intent of just watching them once if you disliked them and go out and buy a dvd of the films you do like when you already have the exact film on your pc which you can just burn onto a disc for a fraction of the price.

I'm not saying you're the only person doing it, you aren't the first who is out to save a quick buck at the expense of others and you won't be the last but what you're doing is morally and legally wrong on a big level IMO.

It's news to me that lending someone a dvd are illegal but you can understand why companies would be less bothered about it than they are about illegal file-sharing. If someone rents a film and likes it there is a good chance they will go out and buy it for themselves whereas if they download it illegally and like it there's a good chance it will go onto several blank discs and be dished out among the peers for the cost of a pint of beer and a packet of peanuts at the local.

So if you look at it by that logic, you are not only costing companies money but also making a quick dollar for yourself in doing so :icon_lol:

 

[Profondo Rosso]

Of course they could tax it, just like they tax tobacco.

Do you really think as many people would grow their own if they could buy it as easily as cigarettes?

:icon_redf Sorry, that information was told to me by a usually reliable (though obviously not in this case) friend.