Pre Match Leicester v Aston Villa

[Micky]

Sadly I think they'll twat us.

 

[pork pie fox]

Sadly I think they'll twat us.

This is how I see it.

 

[FOX Franks]

Sadly I think they'll twat us.

I agree. Emery is a good manager and they have a good squad.

Can’t see anything other than a beating.

 

[Micky]

This is how I see it.

I can actually accept a defeat as long as we put up a good fight.

 

[Miles Away]

Sadly I think they'll twat us.

Indeed. But you never know!

 

[pork pie fox]

I can actually accept a defeat as long as we put up a good fight.

Yep, that's how I saw the Spurs game.

 

[Micky]

Yep, that's how I saw the Spurs game.

I'll go as far as to say, I can totally accept relegation this season, as long as I see fight and something to build on the following season.

 

[homer]

I'll go as far as to say, I can totally accept relegation this season, as long as I see fight and something to build on the following season.

With a big points deduction I’d probably just about go along with this

Without one, or with a very small one, then I wouldn’t accept it at all

 

[Micky]

With a big points deduction I’d probably just about go along with this

Without one, or with a very small one, then I wouldn’t accept it at all

That's the issue, I think we will fight and scrap but if we get deducted 9+ points I think that will ultimately see us off.

 

[Brown Nose]

That's the issue, I think we will fight and scrap but if we get deducted 9+ points I think that will ultimately see us off.

We have two punishments pending. Both hold precedents of 8 point deductions for losses far lower than ours. I'd snap your hand off at 9 points. I fear it will be more than that. We could end up with fewer points than we have now at Xmas.

 

[H T B]

two? one is supposedly from the football league .
They have no jurisdiction in the Premier league.
look at the farce they tried to create last season, when telling the Premier league they will apply any points deduction from the Premier league onto us, and Leicester said, you can’t do that

 

[pork pie fox]

We have two punishments pending. Both hold precedents of 8 point deductions for losses far lower than ours. I'd snap your hand off at 9 points. I fear it will be more than that. We could end up with fewer points than we have now at Xmas.

What were those? Everton got 8 points last season, but that was 6 for one offence and 2 for another. Forest got 4 points last season. Have there been others?

Genuine question, I honestly can’t remember any others.

 

[camberwell fox]

two? one is supposedly from the football league .
They have no jurisdiction in the Premier league.
look at the farce they tried to create last season, when telling the Premier league they will apply any points deduction from the Premier league onto us, and Leicester said, you can’t do that

What were those? Everton got 8 points last season, but that was 6 for one offence and 2 for another. Forest got 4 points last season. Have there been others?

Genuine question, I honestly can’t remember any others.

Have you never heard the f the WOTS rule?

 

[Brown Nose]

What were those? Everton got 8 points last season, but that was 6 for one offence and 2 for another. Forest got 4 points last season. Have there been others?

Genuine question, I honestly can’t remember any others.

There are loads of cases from the FL and other leagues but they are all individual cases. Some have had deductions up to 30 points - I think Luton got that a few years ago. When the appeal on Everton was decided, they said that they'd reduced the penalty (from 10 points to 6) to try to bring it in line with other penalties in other leagues. So when you look at what is applicable, you have to look beyond the PL.

Everton were deducted 10 points for their first offence, which was an overspend of less than £20m. The PL had wanted to deduct 12 points originally. If we look at that as the best recent example from our league, we overspent far more than that. And then did it again the following year. All the time refusing to acknowledge it and work with the leagues.

The things we're apparently using in mitigation seem really weak to me - basically we didn't do as well as we'd expected to. The issues the PL had with Everton and Forest were peanuts in comparison.

So I'm looking at those cases and then seeing us as in a far worse starting position. In my head, I'm seeing at least two 8 point deductions with probably one of those reduced as it covered part of the same period (which is what happened with the second deduction Everton received). So something like -12 points.

But that doesn't take into account the fact that we've evaded punishment rather than complied with the PL and FL as Everton and Forest did - which were factors in their punishments being reduced.

We've bluffed it out so we didn't get hit last season. I think that was a terrible mistake for two reasons.

Firstly, the PL will now need to be seen to punish us for our behaviour as well as our 'crimes'. They need to set an example to other clubs as well as prove to Everton and Forest that they were treated fairly. So they'll go huge and get argued down a bit. Which is why I think the initial punishment will be higher than -12.

And secondly, because it has left the club in a ridiculous limbo where we know that we're fecked no matter who we sign and who our manager is. I'm pretty sure that the PL will be happily delaying this case because they know as well as LCFC know that the season is dead the moment it is announced. And that could end up complicating the competition itself.

 

[Brown Nose]

two? one is supposedly from the football league .
They have no jurisdiction in the Premier league.
look at the farce they tried to create last season, when telling the Premier league they will apply any points deduction from the Premier league onto us, and Leicester said, you can’t do that

Go and read some of the reports from Percy and others.

 

[H T B]

no thanks

 

[pork pie fox]

There are loads of cases from the FL and other leagues but they are all individual cases. Some have had deductions up to 30 points - I think Luton got that a few years ago. When the appeal on Everton was decided, they said that they'd reduced the penalty (from 10 points to 6) to try to bring it in line with other penalties in other leagues. So when you look at what is applicable, you have to look beyond the PL.

Everton were deducted 10 points for their first offence, which was an overspend of less than £20m. The PL had wanted to deduct 12 points originally. If we look at that as the best recent example from our league, we overspent far more than that. And then did it again the following year. All the time refusing to acknowledge it and work with the leagues.

The things we're apparently using in mitigation seem really weak to me - basically we didn't do as well as we'd expected to. The issues the PL had with Everton and Forest were peanuts in comparison.

So I'm looking at those cases and then seeing us as in a far worse starting position. In my head, I'm seeing at least two 8 point deductions with probably one of those reduced as it covered part of the same period (which is what happened with the second deduction Everton received). So something like -12 points.

But that doesn't take into account the fact that we've evaded punishment rather than complied with the PL and FL as Everton and Forest did - which were factors in their punishments being reduced.

We've bluffed it out so we didn't get hit last season. I think that was a terrible mistake for two reasons.

Firstly, the PL will now need to be seen to punish us for our behaviour as well as our 'crimes'. They need to set an example to other clubs as well as prove to Everton and Forest that they were treated fairly. So they'll go huge and get argued down a bit. Which is why I think the initial punishment will be higher than -12.

And secondly, because it has left the club in a ridiculous limbo where we know that we're fecked no matter who we sign and who our manager is. I'm pretty sure that the PL will be happily delaying this case because they know as well as LCFC know that the season is dead the moment it is announced. And that could end up complicating the competition itself.

I don't doubt penalties have been handed out before, but the ones you mention for higher amounts weren't for PSR breaches, which is why I was asking. Luton's penalties were in connection with exiting administration and some dodgy stuff regarding transfers IIRC. Other penalties have mostly been administration related, or stuff like failing to pay players wages. I remember Middlesbrough also being deducted points for failing to fulfil a fixture, which I think may have ultimately cost them their place in the Premier League.

I don't argue with your reasoning at all as to why we may ultimately end up with the sort of deduction you're talking about, but I was just questioning the use of the word precedent, as, as far as I'm aware, the only deductions for PSR in the Premier League so far have been Everton & Forest last season. The Football League is a different entity obviously, but, even then, there isn't a precedent under this regulation.

FWIW I agree and think we will get a decent penalty, probably more than Everton last year, but we'll wait and see, I guess.

 

[give_us_a_wave]

You ok Hun?

Nope. Dying.

 

[SilverFox]

Nope. Dying.

I do hope not.

 

[give_us_a_wave]

I do hope not.

Sorry. I thought most on here were aware of it.

Degenerative liver condition. 4 to 10 years is the current estimate.

10 is if I look after myself (which is doctor speak for never do anything remotely enjoyable & sit indoors for the rest of your life. Needless to say I don't do that)

Target is to get to 10 anyway without their behaviour restrictions. A tall order but if I manage it it means I'll get to 70 years old & win a bet.

I'm the human embodiment of LCFC. Staving off relegation for as long as possible.