Mary Elizabeth Truss

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pork pie fox said:
They’re going to try to bring Boris back, aren’t they?
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I think it’s eye/ear catching when nutters like Dorries call for his return but I just don’t see him wanting it. Johnson is many things but he’s not an idiot. The country is so deep in the shit that whoever takes over is losing the next GE, whether in two months or two years. The pain and fear that will grip the country this winter isn’t the kind of thing he’d want on his plate.

Better wait five years, make eye watering amounts of money and then rise like phoenix from the ashes, probably with a new wife and rescue the country from a Labour government that hasn’t waved a magic wand and fixed everything.

Whoever the next leader is, the idea that Tory MPs (at least publicly) think that they’re the ones to fix this is mind boggling. Like properly ****ing dangerous levels of arrogance, delusion and self interest.
 
Their only chance of getting elected in future is with Boris - the thickos love him, and will vote for him

Without him thumping the table and shouting three word slogans, they are ****ed and they know it
 
tedfoxxx said:
I think it’s eye/ear catching when nutters like Dorries call for his return but I just don’t see him wanting it. Johnson is many things but he’s not an idiot. The country is so deep in the shit that whoever takes over is losing the next GE, whether in two months or two years. The pain and fear that will grip the country this winter isn’t the kind of thing he’d want on his plate.

Better wait five years, make eye watering amounts of money and then rise like phoenix from the ashes, probably with a new wife and rescue the country from a Labour government that hasn’t waved a magic wand and fixed everything.

Whoever the next leader is, the idea that Tory MPs (at least publicly) think that they’re the ones to fix this is mind boggling. Like properly ****ing dangerous levels of arrogance, delusion and self interest.
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He actually is an idiot. A complete idiot.

But yes, he's not that sort of idiot. He'll know on a logical level that it's a disaster trying to take over a sinking ship. But on the other hand he's demonstrated for his entire career (well, his entire life really) that he thinks he can literally do anything & get away with it & the majority of the time he's been right.

What gets me here is the flexibility they seem to have. Last time they insisted on telling us how important it was for the membership to vote for the new leader & to take 6 ****ing weeks in the middle of a national crisis to have a pointless contest. This time they're just doing it all in a week.

Surely there must come a time when even Tory MPs finally figure out that leaving it up to the populations of various dementia wards across the south of England to pick a PM probably isn't a great plan.

Any sane country would be in the middle of an armed insurrection by now.
 
 
tedfoxxx said:
I think it’s eye/ear catching when nutters like Dorries call for his return but I just don’t see him wanting it. Johnson is many things but he’s not an idiot. The country is so deep in the shit that whoever takes over is losing the next GE, whether in two months or two years. The pain and fear that will grip the country this winter isn’t the kind of thing he’d want on his plate.

Better wait five years, make eye watering amounts of money and then rise like phoenix from the ashes, probably with a new wife and rescue the country from a Labour government that hasn’t waved a magic wand and fixed everything.

Whoever the next leader is, the idea that Tory MPs (at least publicly) think that they’re the ones to fix this is mind boggling. Like properly ****ing dangerous levels of arrogance, delusion and self interest.
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This is ageing badly.
 
Johnson currently 2/1.

No wonder the MPs are trying so hard to get Sunak enough votes to avoid a contest. They know Boris will more than likely win if it goes to the membership. There's a big difference between people who vote conservative & people who are actually members of the party. Members couldn't give a flying **** about the state of the country as long as they're alright & their pensions & house prices are secure.

In fact a lot of them actually prefer the country to be in chaos so they can enjoy their favourite sport...sitting in security & comfort while bellowing that everything was better in the good old days.

The country has been brought down by immigrants, everyone out of work is a scrounger, everyone in a low paid job should bloody well pull themselves together, work harder & get on in life (despite the fact that most of these tossers have essentially been handed life on a plate) & bloody foreigners have sabotaged everything good about lovely old England (& it's always England, not Britain,not the UK)

They don't care that Boris left in disgrace or that he's currently under investigation for lying to parliament. Or that until last month he was the worst PM in modern history by miles. They don't ****ing care. He's the right sort of chap & went to the right school & has just the right sort of bloody mindedness that made England great. This is how they think.

Plus of course, the plebs will more than likely fall into line & vote again when he clicks his fingers. As they bloody well should if they know their place.
 
give_us_a_wave said:
Johnson currently 2/1.

No wonder the MPs are trying so hard to get Sunak enough votes to avoid a contest. They know Boris will more than likely win if it goes to the membership. There's a big difference between people who vote conservative & people who are actually members of the party. Members couldn't give a flying **** about the state of the country as long as they're alright & their pensions & house prices are secure.

In fact a lot of them actually prefer the country to be in chaos so they can enjoy their favourite sport...sitting in security & comfort while bellowing that everything was better in the good old days.

The country has been brought down by immigrants, everyone out of work is a scrounger, everyone in a low paid job should bloody well pull themselves together, work harder & get on in life (despite the fact that most of these tossers have essentially been handed life on a plate) & bloody foreigners have sabotaged everything good about lovely old England (& it's always England, not Britain,not the UK)

They don't care that Boris left in disgrace or that he's currently under investigation for lying to parliament. Or that until last month he was the worst PM in modern history by miles. They don't ****ing care. He's the right sort of chap & went to the right school & has just the right sort of bloody mindedness that made England great. This is how they think.

Plus of course, the plebs will more than likely fall into line & vote again when he clicks his fingers. As they bloody well should if they know their place.
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In situations such as this, I think that the best way to address issues with people you don't agree with is to understand why they think the way they do.

If you caricature their values and their rationale, you're not going to get anywhere. In fact, you'll just push them further away from what you consider to be the 'right' way of thinking about something.

Lots of different people that fully appreciate the limitations of Johnson, want him back as PM. It isn't just dribbling incontinents living on the south coast. Much as you'd like to think so.

What do you think that smart, rational, non-wealthy people see in him?
 
Brown Nose said:
What do you think that smart, rational, non-wealthy people see in him?
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I've asked. The answers have been mostly ridiculous.

"He's a laugh"

"He does things his own way"

"He won't take any shit from Europe"

"He's not a ****ing lefty"

"He's crap. But still better than anyone else they've got & I'd rather vote for a corpse than Labour"

Some of these are reasons to vote for the winner of a reality tv show, not the leader of a country. The rest are either baffling or purely partisan.

As for the corruption. Well, my favourite was:

" If you're not on the fiddle when you've got the top job & access to all the perks then you're a tool. Fill your boots mate. I would. Anyone who says they wouldn't is a ****ing liar "

Apparently everyone should be on the fiddle if they can afford to be. Tax is only for people who can't afford an accountant. The bloke above even went as far as to say that Corbyn's often reported integrity made him less admirable not more. He was apparently a mug for wasting 30 years of chances to line his pockets.

Thats my personal research. Dispiriting stuff.
 
give_us_a_wave said:
I've asked. The answers have been mostly ridiculous.

"He's a laugh"

"He does things his own way"

"He won't take any shit from Europe"

"He's not a ****ing lefty"

"He's crap. But still better than anyone else they've got & I'd rather vote for a corpse than Labour"

Some of these are reasons to vote for the winner of a reality tv show, not the leader of a country. The rest are either baffling or purely partisan.

As for the corruption. Well, my favourite was:

" If you're not on the fiddle when you've got the top job & access to all the perks then you're a tool. Fill your boots mate. I would. Anyone who says they wouldn't is a ****ing liar "

Apparently everyone should be on the fiddle if they can afford to be. Tax is only for people who can't afford an accountant. The bloke above even went as far as to say that Corbyn's often reported integrity made him less admirable not more. He was apparently a mug for wasting 30 years of chances to line his pockets.

Thats my personal research. Dispiriting stuff.
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I'm not especially impressed by the responses! I hope your survey is not representative.

I must preface my interpretation with the fact that I cannot stand Johnson. I despise everything he's about and everything he stands for as a person.

However, there are clear and obvious things that people may well like about him.

He's probably the most experienced politician in parliament. Eight years as Mayor of London, three as PM, a couple as Foreign Secretary, and so on. He's been there through crisis situations and he always projects a positive attitude talking up his country. He talks himself, his party and his country up at every opportunity. However you want to interpret this, it works.

His image is very well thought through. It's not an accident that he looks dishevelled all the time. He deliberately disarms people with his off hand and off colour comments. He knows that many people find this appealing. He is more real to them than someone like Starmer or Sunak who come across as cardboard cut outs. He loses a percentage of the population because of all this but he gains more than he loses and he knows it. Most politicians are incredibly unlikeable people with their inability to say or do anything other than the 'party line'. It's boring and obviously false. Johnson bypasses all this. It must be infuriating to work alongside but he doesn't care and people respond to it. This is why people don't really care about his mistakes or misdemeanors.

Like it or not, the fact that he was close to death early in the pandemic made a huge difference to many people. Whatever you thought about him, he put himself out there answering questions and sharing information day in, day out.

I'm sure there is plenty more but these sort of things make me understand Johnson supporters better. They're not necessarily thick wankers. They just have a different set of values and requirements of a leader than we do.
 
Brown Nose said:
His image is very well thought through... He deliberately disarms people with his off hand and off colour comments. He knows that many people find this appealing. He is more real to them... He loses a percentage of the population because of all this but he knows it. Most politicians are incredibly unlikeable people with their inability to say or do anything other than the 'party line'. It's boring and obviously false. Trump bypasses all this. It must be infuriating to work alongside but he doesn't care and people respond to it. This is why people don't really care about his mistakes or misdemeanors.

Like it or not, the fact that he was close to death in the pandemic made a huge difference to many people. Whatever you thought about him, he put himself out there answering questions and sharing information day in, day out.

I'm sure there is plenty more but these sort of things make me understand Trump supporters better. They're not necessarily thick wankers. They just have a different set of values and requirements of a leader than we do.
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Edited slightly but you can see the comparisons.
 
pork pie fox said:
They’re going to try to bring Boris back, aren’t they?
Click to expand...
He’ll be back. It’s like watching a victim of domestic abuse plead for the courts not to jail their husband because he sometimes makes them laugh.

It would be funny if it wasn’t so genuinely awful.
 
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