Speculation Motown's hysterical and annoying, but traditional, totally unfounded Summer 2017 rumours thread

[popillius]

Three wins in thirteen games is a fact.

It's also a fact that his last six matches in charge of us against 'top seven' teams have resulted in six defeats (conceding nineteen goals).

It's a fact that he is very one dimensional tactically. He's got a plan 'a' and nothing more. He doesn't adapt to opposition tactics or personnel. He doesn't know how to change a game or make positive substitutions either.

Why can't we use this sort of evidence to assert an opinion without being called arrogant?

I didn't say you couldn't. I said it was arrogant to assume that, eventually, everyone will agree with you. It may not unfold that way. You have a very self inflated view of how much you can predict the future sometimes.

For the record, your third 'fact' is based on opinion and conjecture. Do you see what I mean about being unable to tell the difference?

 

[Jeff]

Why can't we use this sort of evidence to assert an opinion without being called arrogant?

Because it's not evidence. What you have stated is opinion. He has on a number of occasions made positive substitutions and changed tactics. You just choose to ignore them because they don't fit in with your opinion.


I'm still undecided about Shakespeare. Of the candidates available at the time he was far from the worst, and I think it's too early to judge him.

 

[Lako42]

The facts suggest we are in for a seriously boring season of being beaten by pretty much every decent side and winning against most of the shit.

 

[LudlowFox]

That'll do me for a season, and we certainly won't be alone. Staying in the Prem is the most important thing. Avoiding being tonked would be preferable but there is a growing gap between the 'big clubs' and the also-rans.

 

[Lako42]

That'll do me for a season, and we certainly won't be alone. Staying in the Prem is the most important thing. Avoiding being tonked would be preferable but there is a growing gap between the 'big clubs' and the also-rans.

We won the league one season ago.

I'm afraid the gap hasn't become an unbridgeable chasm in that time.

It's down to attitude and workrate.

I'm not happy to lose to all of the big clubs at all, we used to pride ourselves on being a real danger to them, even when we were battling relegation.

 

[SilverFox]

Precisely my point. Many of those names will have been considered 'real managers', whatever that means.

It doesn't matter who you get, there are no guarantees of success.... (or failure).

All "real manager" means in the context I use it is that I don't consider him up to it. We are a team in the biggest league in the world giving someone who has never managed before (us) the chance to decide whether we are comfortably good for the next 10 years or back in the wilderness. If he wants to manage he should cut his teeth in a lower division.

I think this is a waste of time. I think that his tenure will do more damage than good. I accept that all managers get sacked. Some might achieve something of note before that eventuality. I don't think that Rob Kelly part II will achieve anything. I actually think (just opinion) that we are going to watch the foundations crumble and the building fall when we could have built something.

Hopefully I'm wrong, but I suspect before long we'll all agree.

 

[LudlowFox]

We won the league one season ago.

Did we? Gosh, fancy me forgetting....

..and what a season it was. We punched well above our weight, the stars aligned etc. Outplayed many a time, sat back, defended deep, hung on, sucker punched (all much to my delight) and periodically played some damned attractive football. Pictures on the mantelpiece stuff, fondly remembered yes.... but to be repeated? Maybe. Next time the stars align.

 

[Lako42]

Did we? Gosh, fancy me forgetting....

..and what a season it was. We punched well above our weight, the stars aligned etc. Outplayed many a time, sat back, defended deep, hung on, sucker punched (all much to my delight) and periodically played some damned attractive football. Pictures on the mantelpiece stuff, fondly remembered yes.... but to be repeated? Maybe. Next time the stars align.

I'm not talking of winning the league again.

I'm talking of grasping an opportunity to become more than a club with two assistant managers who setup exactly the same against every team and lose every match against a supposed bigger side.

It's called opportunity, ambition and progress and unfortunately we may have gotten off the bus early.

 

[LudlowFox]

It's called opportunity, ambition and progress and unfortunately we may have gotten off the bus early.

I agree with you there. In fact, I think we're saying similar things from different perspectives.

Our attitude on the pitch, and perhaps within the club itself, has been disappointing. We haven't continued the momentum and kicked on but have fallen away instead. I've reluctantly accepted that and now have a revised expectation.

It's not quite 'start over' but I think we need new blood, new ideas and tactics, and refreshed energy. I don't see that happening immediately but am prepared to allow CS to grow and lead, to bring it about.

That is why I'll accept an 'also-ran' season. because I see it as an inevitable consequence of our rebuilding process.

 

[H T B]

Arsenal have been also rans since they last won it in 2004. Spurs and Liverpool have never won the Premier league, so therefore must be also rans.
Not too bad a company to keep

 

[LudlowFox]

Not too bad a company to keep

Indeed not.

Everyone can see the growing gap between 'big clubs' and the majority of the Prem teams. They have reserves that'd walk into the starting line-ups of other sides.

Big clubs spend big bucks on plan b options, to cover for injury and enable tactical changes. Other clubs go out on a limb to buy a single striker because they desperately need one in their starting line-up.

I see ourselves as being at the top end of the 'other clubs' bracket (but lacking the commensurate performances). We need to reshuffle and rebuild to challenge again, but I don't think we have big club funding to build their kind of squads.

 

[camberwell fox]

We do realise we've only played THREE league games so far, right?

We lost away to Arsenal (naive and unlucky) won at home to Brighton (comfortable second gear job) and lost away to Man United.

Yes, the wheels are off and the cart is on fire.

Give the guy a chance ffs.

 

[LudlowFox]

Give the guy a chance ffs.

Not sure if you're addressing anyone in particular but for my part I am giving CS a chance. He has a great many pluses and I think he's still learning.

 

[camberwell fox]

Not sure if you're addressing anyone in particular but for my part I am giving CS a chance. He has a great many pluses and I think he's still learning.

I deliberately wasn't quoting anyone.

 

[popillius]

All "real manager" means in the context I use it is that I don't consider him up to it. We are a team in the biggest league in the world giving someone who has never managed before (us) the chance to decide whether we are comfortably good for the next 10 years or back in the wilderness. If he wants to manage he should cut his teeth in a lower division.

I think this is a waste of time. I think that his tenure will do more damage than good. I accept that all managers get sacked. Some might achieve something of note before that eventuality. I don't think that Rob Kelly part II will achieve anything. I actually think (just opinion) that we are going to watch the foundations crumble and the building fall when we could have built something.

Hopefully I'm wrong, but I suspect before long we'll all agree.

And it still makes no sense. You can't define a 'real manager' because, truthfully, you mean someone who, in your opinion, may be a better fit. The problem with this is that you have no idea what kind of a fit CS will prove to be. Nobody does, even those on here who seem to think they can predict the future and talk about his future failure in concrete terms because, of course, they know so much more than anyone else.

Ask Manchester City fans about their real manager or Crystal Palace fans about theirs. They may have difgerent opinions about them now even though at the time, they were so excited by these 'real managers' coming in and creating miracles. It doesn't matter how long you've been managing sometimes, David Wagner is proof of that.

Like I have said many times, he may not work out but what I have seen so far this season has been encouraging and heaps better than the shite served up under Ranieri this time last year. If he doesn't kick on, then at least he was given the chance but judging him now is ludicrous. If idiots in the ground start getting on his back after so little time (which in fairness they haven't as of yet) then they will have to burden a large part of the responsibility if there is a quick decline.

There are no guarantees. No matter who we have there will always be those quick to criticise.

 

[Brown Nose]

And it still makes no sense. You can't define a 'real manager' because, truthfully, you mean someone who, in your opinion, may be a better fit. The problem with this is that you have no idea what kind of a fit CS will prove to be. Nobody does, even those on here who seem to think they can predict the future and talk about his future failure in concrete terms because, of course, they know so much more than anyone else.

Ask Manchester City fans about their real manager or Crystal Palace fans about theirs. They may have difgerent opinions about them now even though at the time, they were so excited by these 'real managers' coming in and creating miracles. It doesn't matter how long you've been managing sometimes, David Wagner is proof of that.

Like I have said many times, he may not work out but what I have seen so far this season has been encouraging and heaps better than the shite served up under Ranieri this time last year. If he doesn't kick on, then at least he was given the chance but judging him now is ludicrous. If idiots in the ground start getting on his back after so little time (which in fairness they haven't as of yet) then they will have to burden a large part of the responsibility if there is a quick decline.

There are no guarantees. No matter who we have there will always be those quick to criticise.

Your theory only really works if you assume that people are total numbskulls without any ability to process more than the most basic information.

When I watch my child playing and they're doing something that could be dangerous, I stop them and make sure that they're aware of the danger and amend their play to account for it. In your world, I should just wait for an accident to happen and then do something about it.

Of course nobody knows exactly what's going to happen with anything in life. There are too many variables and too many unknowns to apply absolutes. However, I choose to live my life applying the knowledge that I've gleaned from all my experiences. I don't suspend this knowledge pending proof.

And of course some people know more than others about the future of Shakespeare as well as just about everything else in life. We're not all the same. I know much more about how things are likely to go now than I did 20 years ago for example. The experience of watching 20+ managers over 30+ years has given me some sense of what is likely to work and what isn't.

I may be wrong but it's highly unlikely. I know unlikely things are possible but they're unlikely for a reason. So my 'opinion' is as valid as your 'opinion' that an 'opinion' is less valid than sitting around waiting for something to happen.

 

[Mike - True Blue Tinter]

I do not think Mahrez is necessarily "very unhappy". No reports of him moaning in the dressing room etc. Seems to be playing nearly as well as 2 years ago. I am sure most footballers throughout the leagues daydream of playing for Barcelona, Real Madrid etc. Mahrez just believes he is talented enough to be offered the chance!
Unlike grumpy git Drinkwater. Gray and Ulloa may just be frustrated that they think they are good enough to get more starts.

 

[popillius]

Your theory only really works if you assume that people are total numbskulls without any ability to process more than the most basic information.

When I watch my child playing and they're doing something that could be dangerous, I stop them and make sure that they're aware of the danger and amend their play to account for it. In your world, I should just wait for an accident to happen and then do something about it.

Of course nobody knows exactly what's going to happen with anything in life. There are too many variables and too many unknowns to apply absolutes. However, I choose to live my life applying the knowledge that I've gleaned from all my experiences. I don't suspend this knowledge pending proof.

And of course some people know more than others about the future of Shakespeare as well as just about everything else in life. We're not all the same. I know much more about how things are likely to go now than I did 20 years ago for example. The experience of watching 20+ managers over 30+ years has given me some sense of what is likely to work and what isn't.

I may be wrong but it's highly unlikely. I know unlikely things are possible but they're unlikely for a reason. So my 'opinion' is as valid as your 'opinion' that an 'opinion' is less valid than sitting around waiting for something to happen.

Your comparison is completely useless. If I were to stop my children doing something because I knew it would harm them then that would be sensible because the consequences outweigh the risk. This is a football team. What a ridiculous notion on which to base an argument! There is no real 'risk' in keeping Shakespeare and seeing what he can do - the worst that will happen is that we will get people like you saying '"I told you so" whenever we so much as look like conceding. Like I said, we've looked far better in the first few games if this season than we did for the first few games if last season so there has been progress whether you choose to ignore it or not.

The rest of your post is repetitive waffle about what you can predict based on experience blah blah blah. You can't predict anything based on such a small sample of games. In this instance, 'waiting for something to happen' is far more sensible than throwing our toys out of the pram and replacing one manager who may or may not succeed with another manager who may or may not succeed, especially given the available options. Not only would that be financially idiotic but it would make the club look even more ruthless than it does already; a great way to attract 'real managers'.

Winning the title really did ruin some people's view of this club and perhaps football as a whole. I suggest those people go back to supporting a grass roots club.

 

[SilverFox]

I don't think anyone wants to get on Rob's back. I've no design on that. I don't boo anyone because I don't believe it is a good way to support.

I maintain though in my opinion that giving someone who has never managed at this level before us the most amount of money any manager in the history of LCFC has ever had is a mistake and it will end badly.

In footballing terms it would be a disaster to spend big, increase our wage bill vastly, and then be relegated eventually because we could not recruit the necessary experience to cement ourselves as a PL team. We perhaps have the best chance we are ever going to have to stop the yoyo and be a consistent top 10 club. We will not achieve that on our present course (in my opinion).

 

[SilverFox]

Your comparison is completely useless. If I were to stop my children doing something because I knew it would harm them then that would be sensible because the consequences outweigh the risk. This is a football team. What a ridiculous notion on which to base an argument! There is no real 'risk' in keeping Shakespeare and seeing what he can do - the worst that will happen is that we will get people like you saying '"I told you so" whenever we so much as look like conceding. Like I said, we've looked far better in the first few games if this season than we did for the first few games if last season so there has been progress whether you choose to ignore it or not.

The rest of your post is repetitive waffle about what you can predict based on experience blah blah blah. You can't predict anything based on such a small sample of games. In this instance, 'waiting for something to happen' is far more sensible than throwing our toys out of the pram and replacing one manager who may or may not succeed with another manager who may or may not succeed, especially given the available options. Not only would that be financially idiotic but it would make the club look even more ruthless than it does already; a great way to attract 'real managers'.

Winning the title really did ruin some people's view of this club and perhaps football as a whole. I suggest those people go back to supporting a grass roots club.

Neee naaarr neeee naaarrr neee naaaarrr its the ****ing opinion police.