One dreadful Night in Paris.

[Blaarev]

Indeedy!

Now get off of here and do your predictions!

It's MONDAY!!!

 

[SwedeFox]

"Either God can do nothing to stop catastrophes like this, or he doesn't care to, or he doesn’t exist. God is either impotent, evil, or imaginary."

The logical problem of evil was solved by Alvin Plantinga in the 70's. You're confusing moral evil (bombings, massacres etc) with natural evil (earthquakes etc).

 

[Lako42]

Does religion create murderous ****s or simply give them a vehicle to carry out their ****ish deeds under a 'legitimate' banner?

Are the people responsible all religious nut jobs or just nut jobs?

Plenty of people are religious and cause no harm to anyone, some people use religion to manipulate others.

I'm sure people would find another way of carrying out these mass killings and general terror without religion as a catalyst, heck our government carries it out with great gusto.

 

[Jeff]

Does religion create murderous ****s

Yes.

Their brand of religion turns normal people into killers because it makes them think they're doing good.

 

[Matt_B]

Yes.

Their brand of religion turns normal people into killers because it makes them think they're doing good.

I'd argue that having your family decimated by allied bombs and categorised as "collateral" goes some way to helping, though.

 

[SwedeFox]

I'd argue that having your family decimated by allied bombs and categorised as "collateral" goes some way to helping, though.

What? If it wasn't for Islam they'd be plucking flowers and marvelling at the extraordinary evolution of the bumble-bee

 

[Jeff]

I'd argue that having your family decimated by allied bombs and categorised as "collateral" goes some way to helping, though.

Most victims of Islamic terrorists are other Muslims. The terrorists do it because the other lot believe in the wrong kind of Islam.

 

[Mawsley]

The logical problem of evil was solved by Alvin Plantinga in the 70's. You're confusing moral evil (bombings, massacres etc) with natural evil (earthquakes etc).

Solved? Positing a idea to apply to a non-existent Judaeo-Christian deity hardly solves anything. His solution rests on the fact that something omnipotent can do anything but create a perfect universe devoid of evil - to whit "impotent" therefore still holds true from the quote I elected to apply rather than misapply. The word of God, as written in his own best selling book, damns him as evil irrespective of his inability to act in an omniscient, omnipotent manner.

I refer the court to the Spiderman origin story: If you hold superpowers but choose not to use them to prevent evil and suffering then you are a ****. Spiderman knew it. Stan Lee knew it. And Stan Lee has been called a god. That's bleeding edge philosophy and logic right there.

 

[Mawsley]

And I'm so ****ing sick of the xenophobic, racist dickheads flooding social media with their swiftly blocked calls for retribution.

And cockends like these: http://news.stv.tv/east-central/133...tacked-by-mob-of-15-citing-revenge-for-paris/

 

[SwedeFox]

Solved? Positing a idea to apply to a non-existent Judaeo-Christian deity hardly solves anything. His solution rests on the fact that something omnipotent can do anything but create a perfect universe devoid of evil - to whit "impotent" therefore still holds true from the quote I elected to apply rather than misapply. The word of God, as written in his own best selling book, damns him as evil irrespective of his inability to act in an omniscient, omnipotent manner.

I refer the court to the Spiderman origin story: If you hold superpowers but choose not to use them to prevent evil and suffering then you are a ****. Spiderman knew it. Stan Lee knew it. And Stan Lee has been called a god. That's bleeding edge philosophy and logic right there.

No, there are a lot of other things that an omnipotent being can't do. Create a square-shaped circle, for example. Plantinga's argument was to show that a world with only moral good is comparable to other logical contradictions. And that's why the Sam Harris quote is usually used only in relation to natural disasters.

 

[fitz]

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/paris-attacks-alan-shearer-reveals-10449395

Amazing. Not even in the same country at the time of the attacks but this is newsworthy. I wasn't in Paris, feels like a near miss for me.

 

[Matt_B]

Most victims of Islamic terrorists are other Muslims. The terrorists do it because the other lot believe in the wrong kind of Islam.

That's not what I said. The west has to accept some responsibility even if it is just that our attacks make it easier for IS to spread propaganda.

Blaming it entirely on religion absolves ****s like Bush and Blair too easily IMO.

 

[spionfox]

Is it:
1. Your god isn't listening.
2. Your god doesn't care.
3. Your god doesn't exist.
4. Your god is on the side of the terrorists.

You forgot number 5 - God gave man free will to take his/her own actions.

I'm not religious myself but I am mainly tolerant of those that are. It is not religion in itself that causes the problem.

The hate preachers use religion, or rather perverse deviations of it, to further their goals and to radicalise, control and manipulate the gullible.

There would still be nutters, despots and murdering scum if religion didn't exist.

 

[Brown Nose]

I've got three points to make on all this.

1. Peter Hitchen's either makes complete sense on a subject or is utterly wrong in every conceivable way. Here is his excellent and accurate blog on Paris which I recommend: http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co...-to-beat-terror-then-calm-down-and-think.html

2. I am no apologist for religion. I am 100% certain that there is no God and all religious observation is a total waste of your limited time alive. However, religion is not responsible for this atrocity. It is a symptom and an excuse but it is not why people do things like this. Just as religion wasn't responsible for Nazism or any of myriad other lunatic causes.

3. The cause is the limited brain of a human being. We're all fundamentally flawed and variably capable of atrocious actions and behaviours. I loathe the excuse that some people are evil. There is no such thing as an 'evil' person. Our brains just haven't evolved sufficiently for the world that we now live in. We are in a unique experiment of evolution. Humans no longer have survival as our main preoccupation. We are increasingly pushed into thinking too much about things our brains cannot compute properly. Therefore, people are susceptible to suggestion and crazed ideologies.

Most of us tip toe through our existence without being overtly damaging to others. But billions believe in the fairy story of religion. Billions! And we disagree with each other so much and so often on pretty much everything that it's incredible that we co-exist at all. Whoever finally and critically discovers how to de-code the brain will discover a vulnerability for religious observation, suicide bombing and loads more. Why do some Muslims interpret their fundamentalism in completely different ways to others? They can hear and read the same messages from the same teacher but one sees peace where another sees war.

 

[fitz]

Personally think if we can get grown ups believing in sky pixies then believing they'll get some virgins if they blow themselves up isn't too hard to imagine. Though I have no issue with anyone believing in sky pixies if they're not extra mental.

 

[Macky]

Is it:
1. Your god isn't listening.
2. Your god doesn't care.
3. Your god doesn't exist.
4. Your god is on the side of the terrorists.

You forgot number 5 - God gave man free will to take his/her own actions.

I'm sorry spion, my love, but that doesn't work at all. Your number 5 doesn't make any sense in that list, especially when you include the question that Jeff asked before compiling the list:

If you prayed after the last disaster, and the one before that, and the one before that, why do you think they keep happening?

Selectively quoting things out of context is a trick used by religious nutjobs

There would still be nutters, despots and murdering scum if religion didn't exist.

Yes, of course there would, but they wouldn't be able to get away with their ****ery quite as easily without religion.
Which is one of the reasons they created religion in the first place

 

[spionfox]

Anyway, on to more serious things. That new Warburton "Muppets" advert eh? Brilliant. Makes me yearn for giant crumpet.

 

[Macky]

I think one of the advantages of where we live is the fact that we are an Island and perhaps we have better control of our borders?

What about all of the radicalised Muslims that were born and raised in the UK? Or the ones from any of the other 27 countries that have unfettered access onto your island fortress?

 

[spionfox]

Which is one of the reasons they created religion in the first place

Perhaps. Also used to keep the masses in check. After all, if people believed there was a day of judgement then they may be less inclined to do "bad" things. Quite ironic how the hate preachers have turned this on its head so that doing bad things is now de riguer to enter 'paradise'.

 

[Macky]

Also used to keep the masses in check. After all, if people believed there was a day of judgement then they may be less inclined to do "bad" things.

Anybody that requires a religion to prevent them from doing bad things is, quite simply, a ****