O'Neill To Go Full Circle

[Jeff]

do you think The League in the 60s was easier than The Prem of the 90s?

I'm not old enough to know about that.
But Gillies turned us into genuine league title contenders, and got us to two FA cup finals when it was seen as a much more important competition than it is now.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

I thought he did a terrific job at Villa. At the conclusion of his reign had they spent or sold more money? Just honestly wondering, don't know the answer.

Let's see how Villa fare over the next few years (my bet is they don't finish anywhere near sixth for a while).

His transfer profits over 4 seasons there were -£28million. Though I can't be arsed to check, I think I'm right in saying that only ManCity, Chelsea and Spurs have a worse profit ratio in transfer fees over the period MON was there. Incidentally, ManUtd and Arsenal both made profits in their transfers over that period, which is quite remarkable (the only two teams in the division to do so).

He did a decent job at Villa. Given the millions that got pumped into them after Randy Lerner's takeover he got them as far as I'd expect a manager too, but no more. I wouldn't say he was a success or failure there, he was just so so.

MONs record cannot be discounted what he did at Leicester and Celtic, getting them to the UEFA Cup final, was exceptional.
Time will tell if his spell at Villa will be judged as a success relatively.

I would interested in your views as to who would be a contender for the Manure job?

You honestly think they will put managers who did a good job at Leicester or Celtic ahead of managers who have done good jobs at the top teams in Europe? MON is a good manager, among the top 6 or 7 managers in the country and would probably scrape the top 50 managers in the world, but he is nowhere near good enough for the job as one of the top 3 or 4 teams in Europe.

I'd imagine ManUtd would be after a manager who has proven himself in the CL rather than a manager whose biggest success being the Scottish League title.

There's plenty of managers I'd think ManUtd would be after ahead of him, off the top of my head: Jose Mourinho, Gio Trappatoni, Guus Hiddink, Ottmar Hitzfeld, Marcelo Lippi, Carlos Bilardo, Rafa Benitez, Louis Van Gaal, Carlos Bianchi, Luiz Felipe Scolari, Luis Cubilla, Vicente Del Bosque, Cesa Luis Menotti, Luxemburgo, Pep Gauardiola.

I'm sure there's plenty more too who I either have forgotten, have never heard of or who will reveal themselves over the next couple of seasons.

If not a manager whose been successful at the top level of the game, then I'd imagine they'd go for a former well loved player like Eric Cantona or Mark Hughes ahead of someone like MON.

Interesting comparison Jeff - do you think The League in the 60s was easier than The Prem of the 90s?

Gillies had us challenging for the title though, not challenging for midtable. My granddad always brought me up on stories of that early 60s side, he was definitely under the opinion Gillies was the best manager we ever had.

 

[PONTUS KAAMARK]

I think all this mon stuff is mostly shit but then I wondered if he would agree too come till the end of the season while he waits for the next big job? highly unlikely i know

 

[Blue Maniac]

There's plenty of managers I'd think ManUtd would be after ahead of him, off the top of my head: Jose Mourinho, Gio Trappatoni, Guus Hiddink, Ottmar Hitzfeld, Marcelo Lippi, Carlos Bilardo, Rafa Benitez, Louis Van Gaal, Carlos Bianchi, Luiz Felipe Scolari, Luis Cubilla, Vicente Del Bosque, Cesa Luis Menotti, Luxemburgo, Pep Gauardiola.

 

[Chrysalis]

Actually just looking through soccerbase, he spent a good £12million more on transfers than Arsenal did during his 4 years there!

I agree he did spend a lot however thats not the only comparison to make, the squad arsenal had when he started at villa was superior, so arguably he would have to spend more just to be equal.

eg. if we went up and outspent man utd in our first season would we be expected to win the title? of course not.

 

[Joe_Fox]

i would

 

[Fox From The Hudd]

There's plenty of managers I'd think ManUtd would be after ahead of him, off the top of my head: Jose Mourinho, Gio Trappatoni, Guus Hiddink, Ottmar Hitzfeld, Marcelo Lippi, Carlos Bilardo, Rafa Benitez, Louis Van Gaal, Carlos Bianchi, Luiz Felipe Scolari, Luis Cubilla, Vicente Del Bosque, Cesa Luis Menotti, Luxemburgo, Pep Gauardiola.


Gillies had us challenging for the title though, not challenging for midtable. My granddad always brought me up on stories of that early 60s side, he was definitely under the opinion Gillies was the best manager we ever had.

Prof you do come out with some good arguments but nominating a man who's last achievement was 32 years ago and then quoting your Grandad is not you at your best!

 

[Profondo Rosso]

Prof you do come out with some good arguments but nominating a man who's last achievement was 32 years ago and then quoting your Grandad is not you at your best!

You don't think ManUtd would pick the likes of Benitez, Menotti, Bilardo or Bianchi over MON? I know that Menotti has been out of the game for a while and Bilardo and Bianchi have only been coaching as opposed to managing in recent years, but all of them are proven at the highest level of the game, something that MON is not. I honestly think, ManUtd, as almost all of the top teams in Europe will do these days would much rather have a manager proven at that level, than one who is not, no matter how long it's been since they've worked there. Not saying it's right, but I think a club like ManUtd would pick those names ahead of MON everytime.

As for the granddad quote, I wasn't making an argument either way, just simply saying that my granddad preferred Gillies. I was 10 when MON left and didn't really fully appreciate what was going on at the time and I was not born when Gillies left, I don't really have an emotional connection with either manager, obviously I appreciate what they both did for Leicester, but at the end of the day, both are just names in our history book to me and I'm never going to have the same connection with them as managers who have done well since I really started following Leicester (i.e. basically Pearson and to a lesser extent Micky Adams and that's it).

 

[Harbro-Fox]

Yeah this is so true. O'Neill could have most jobs in the Prem and instead he would want to take over bottom of the Championship.

 

[Miles Away]

His transfer profits over 4 seasons there were -£28million.

Including the Milner money?

 

[FryattFox]

Including the Milner money?

Milner was sold after he left.

 

[Miles Away]

Milner was sold after he left.

They made a massive profit on a player he signed....

 

[Blue Maniac]

You don't think ManUtd would pick the likes of Benitez, Menotti, Bilardo or Bianchi over MON? I know that Menotti has been out of the game for a while and Bilardo and Bianchi have only been coaching as opposed to managing in recent years, but all of them are proven at the highest level of the game, something that MON is not. I honestly think, ManUtd, as almost all of the top teams in Europe will do these days would much rather have a manager proven at that level, than one who is not, no matter how long it's been since they've worked there.

Sorry, PR, you know your football but I have to disagree here. Let's just think about it for a moment. In his last job, Benitez won a couple of cups in six years, despite enormous investment in the team. Not good enough. Menotti and Bilardo are 71 years old, and have never managed in England, while to my knowledge Bianchi has never managed with any real success in Europe (or for very long at any one club). O'Neill, on the other hand, knows the English game very well and has a decent looking medal tally for someone who has only managed small clubs.

I'd also take issue with the assertion that Menotti, Bilardo and Bianchi are proven at the 'highest level'. The Libertadores is certainly not the highest level of football, and neither is the Argentine league.

 

[Profondo Rosso]

Sorry, PR, you know your football but I have to disagree here. Let's just think about it for a moment. In his last job, Benitez won a couple of cups in six years, despite enormous investment in the team. Not good enough. Menotti and Bilardo are 71 years old, and have never managed in England, while to my knowledge Bianchi has never managed with any real success in Europe (or for very long at any one club). O'Neill, on the other hand, knows the English game very well and has a decent looking medal tally for someone who has only managed small clubs.

I'd also take issue with the assertion that Menotti, Bilardo and Bianchi are proven at the 'highest level'. The Libertadores is certainly not the highest level of football, and neither is the Argentine league.

Firstly, you are basing this on the idea that top English clubs want managers proven in English football?! When all the big English teams over the past 15 years or so have shown the exact opposite of this idea and have pretty much exclusively hired managers unproven in England, but proven elsewhere in the footballing world? I really think very little but their record will be taken into account when hiring, unless SAF actually reccomends someone personally.

Benitez - a couple of cups? You forgot to mention one of these was the Champions League, he also came closest to winning the title for Liverpool for the first time in two decades. In the end the palaver over the American owners cost him his job, as you can see by a more than capable manager atm really, really struggling.

Benitez' transfers can be question at Liverpool, sure, but so can MON's at Villa and there is no question in my mind that Benitez is one of the best tacticians in the world (I've always thought he would be more suited to international management than club management myself).

Benitez has won the Champions League and titles in one of the 2 major European leagues (with a team like Valencia no less) and come close to winning one in the other (iirc Liverpool would have won the title with that points tally in all but 3 of the previous 20 seasons).

Bilardo won the World Cup, ffs! If that's not achieving at the top of the game, I don't know what is and I don't get your attitude regarding the Copa Libertadores. How exactly is the biggest trophy in South American football not considered to be among the top of the game? These teams regularly beat the top European teams in friendlies and supercups and such like and it's not like Brazil or Argentina are known for producing great footballers and football teams or take their football seriously, is it? The top Brazilian and Argentinian coaches and teams have shown for pretty much ever that they can compete with the top European teams.

Also, it seems very odd to me to be belittling the Copa Libertadores and then making reference to MON's medal tally?

O'Neill's medal tally is made up of genuinely minor trophies. Do you genuinely think the ManUtd board would take a honours list of Scottish League titles or League Cups over World Cups, Spanish/Argentinian League titles, Champions Leagues and Copa Libertadores?

 

[Realist]

O'Neill's medal tally is made up of genuinely minor trophies. Do you genuinely think the ManUtd board would take a honours list of Scottish League titles or League Cups over World Cups, Spanish/Argentinian League titles, Champions Leagues and Copa Libertadores?

How many World Cups, Spanish/Argentinian league titles, Champions Leagues and Copa Libertadores had Ferguson won when they made him manager?

 

[Profondo Rosso]

How many World Cups, Spanish/Argentinian league titles, Champions Leagues and Copa Libertadores had Ferguson won when they made him manager?

Silly comparison. Where ManUtd were in 1986 and where ManUtd are in 2010 are two different kettles of fish entirely, MON probably would have got the ManUtd job back then.

ManUtd were nowhere near being one of the top 3 or 4 biggest club teams in the world when Fergie was hired, not to mention that English teams were far more likely to go for someone British back in 1986 (and mid-table teams as ManUtd were back then, still are, though not to the same degree).

Ferguson would absolutely not be hired by ManUtd now, based on his record prior to joining ManUtd.

 

[Jeff]

How many World Cups, Spanish/Argentinian league titles, Champions Leagues and Copa Libertadores had Ferguson won when they made him manager?

Things have changed since then.

Being able to manage foreign players and against foreign teams is far more important than it used to be than when Ferguson took over. And when he took over Man U were not the successful team they are now. They finished 11th the season he took over.

 

[Realist]

I agree things have changed since then, but one of the managers Profondo mentioned as an example of a top manager was Bilardo. He won the World Cup as manager of Argentina back in 1986, has he done anything since to warrant his billing as a top manager nowadays, 24 years later?

 

[Profondo Rosso]

I agree things have changed since then, but one of the managers Profondo mentioned as an example of a top manager was Bilardo. He won the World Cup as manager of Argentina back in 1986, has he done anything since to warrant his billing as a top manager nowadays, 24 years later?

Reached the World Cup final again in 1990 with a very mediocre side. Since then he has hardly managed, that's true, but he has coached a lot for example he was recently involved in being a coach to Maradona for the Argentine national side, supposedly to groom Maradona as a manager, but he quit, promptly leading to a slump in Argentina's results and performances.

I still think he would be regarded as one of the best coaches in the world and is without doubt one of the most revolutionary tacticians the game has ever seen, so I still think ManUtd would go for him over someone who is still unproven at the top of the game like MON.

Anyway, this is moving far from the point, which is that I really can't see the ManUtd considering MON as their manager as there are far more proven options out there. The only way it can possibly happen imo is if SAF personally reccomends him.

 

[alex]

He won't come back, no Ffin way this will happen..