RIP Thatcher

[David Gwilliam]

What on earth are you talking about? .

-

I was talking about the posts in which you were bad mannered toward Camberwell and used an obscenity. I also believe that language like "cancerous polyp on the anus of Britain" damages political discourse

That does not make me a Thatcher supporter. For the record I never voted for her. I voted for Callaghan (Labour) in 1979. I felt Labour in the 1980s were in no state to form a government and voted for Roy Jenkins (SDP) in 1983 and with reluctance for Paddy Ashdown (Lib Dem)in 1987

The Daily Telegraph. a right wing newspaper, has an excellent article complaining that the Queen should not have been advised to attend the Thatcher funeral. It points out that she did not attend Attlee's funeral. No doubt this advice came from Cameron trying to appease his backbenchers.

In my time of following politics (since 1956) easily the best Prime Minister IMO was Harold Wilson who combined good sense, deep compassion and a desire for the country to work together. It was right that as a partisan figure he should not have received a ceremonial funeral although I believe he was far more deserving than Mrs Thatcher.

 

[Mystery benefactor]

Mawsley, you are a brother in arms. I agree with every word you have posted in this thread, and hold the same opinions you do. So what if she she was the first woman prime minister and any other personal achievement she had? In my opinion she was nothing but a bully to the poor. It is a sad indictment that under her rule, the divide between rich and poor rose the sharpest than at any other time during the 20th century in our country. THAT IS HER LEGACY and her shame. Anything else that is peddled out by her supporters, is an attempt to spray paint a turd.

 

[Mawsley]

Cost of funeral to the tax payer = £0

 

[Blue Maniac]

One thing I keep seeing among all the legitimate criticisms is a very odd stick being used to beat Thatcher: that she called Nelson Mandela a terrorist. Now, if a founding member of a terrorist organisation responsible for a series of bombings and terrorist attacks resulting in the deaths of many innocent people isn't a terrorist, who is?

 

[Ike O'Noclassed]

One thing I keep seeing among all the legitimate criticisms is a very odd stick being used to beat Thatcher: that she called Nelson Mandela a terrorist. Now, if a founding member of a terrorist organisation responsible for a series of bombings and terrorist attacks resulting in the deaths of many innocent people isn't a terrorist, who is?

Thatcher wasted her time promoting the apartheid collaborator, Chief Buthelezi, whose private army was responsible for a large number of atrocities in the KwaZulu homeland in the 1980s (many many times more deaths than attributable to the ANC), according to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Buthelezi had been a founder member of the ANC, but to my knowledge Thatch never called him the T word.

So her definition of a terrorist was pretty subjective and elastic, depending on where the cash was. On which topic I've yet to hear in any tribute her role in championing Mugabe, who was cheerfully committing genocide against his [black] political opponents throughout the 1980s, but as at the time he wasn't overtly stealing white farmer's land or threatening British investment, was given a free pass to Carry on Murdering.

 

[Blue Maniac]

Thatcher wasted her time promoting the apartheid collaborator, Chief Buthelezi, whose private army was responsible for a large number of atrocities in the KwaZulu homeland in the 1980s (many many times more deaths than attributable to the ANC), according to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Buthelezi had been a founder member of the ANC, but to my knowledge Thatch never called him the T word.

So her definition of a terrorist was pretty subjective and elastic, depending on where the cash was. On which topic I've yet to hear in any tribute her role in championing Mugabe, who was cheerfully committing genocide against his [black] political opponents throughout the 1980s, but as at the time he wasn't overtly stealing white farmer's land or threatening British investment, was given a free pass to Carry on Murdering.

She certainly counted some very odd people among her allies. It just seems bizarre to me that people are so insistent that Mandela wasn't a terrorist when he so plainly was.

 

[Biffa Bacon]

She certainly counted some very odd people among her allies. It just seems bizarre to me that people are so insistent that Mandela wasn't a terrorist when he so plainly was.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter

 

[Blue Maniac]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter

Indeed. I said that exact phrase a few days ago. Ultimately, right thinking people supported Mandela's cause, but that appears to have caused an astonishing number of people to turn a blind eye to the things he did. I wouldn't be surprised if there were people in today's world who had no idea Mandela was a murderer.

In a world where such people as Mahatma Gandhi, the Dalai Lama and, perhaps worst of all, Mother Teresa are revered as selfless, kind-hearted humanitarians, it's hard to be surprised by anything.

 

[homer]

I thought they were opposed to her policies in opposition? So instead of changing it back, they took the same approach and made things even worse?

Yes they did

What's your point ?

 

[Biffa Bacon]

I can't be bothered to read the whole thread to see if this has been posted but here is Stan Collymores view, one which I agree with in the main http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rjllua

As for the Mavinas, if the UK stops paying people to live there most will leave, the annual costs to 'secure' the islands are crazy. I'd bet before the war hardly anyone in this country could point out where the islands were on a map or find any point to 'owning' them, the arguement that 'the people want to be british so we must support them' didn't work with the population of Hong Kong so why should it apply to the population of the islands.

 

[spionfox]

As for the Mavinas

Would that be what right minded folk know as the Fakand Isands? :icon_wink

 

[homer]

Would that be what right minded folk know as the Fakand Isands? :icon_wink

'tis fair to say that our claim on them is a load of boocks

 

[Blue Maniac]

'tis fair to say that our claim on them is a load of boocks

As is that of Argentina, in fairness.

 

[spionfox]

Do i believe she was a patriot? Yes.

Do i believe she was evil? No.

Do i believe that as Prime Minister she had the interests of all Britons at heart? No.

In reply to Stan, I give you Marvin Lee Aday when he sung "Two out of three ain't bad..." :icon_wink

 

[drew]

Securing natural reserves isn't a bad idea.

 

[Biffa Bacon]

Securing natural reserves isn't a bad idea.

It is when the costs to secure them far outweigh the benefits, by the time any of the technically difficult reserves are released the UK will have spent billions on 30-40 years of militarisation and lost huge amounts of political influence to retain claim on the reserves.

If the people left on the islands after subsidies for living there are withdrawn want to rule themselves let them but, as previously stated, just wanting to be British didn't help the Hong Kong Chinese so why should it in the south atlantic?

 

[homer]

From the words of Elvis (no, not that one) :


I saw a newspaper picture from the political campaign
A woman was kissing a child, who was obviously in pain
She spills with compassion, as that young child's
Face in her hands she grips
Can you imagine all that greed and avarice
Coming down on that child's lips

Well I hope I don't die too soon
I pray the lord my soul to save
Oh I'll be a good boy, I'm trying so hard to behave
Because there's one thing I know, I'd like to live
Long enough to savor
That's when they finally put you in the ground
I'll stand on your grave and tramp the dirt down

When England was the whore of the world
Margaret was her madam
And the future looked as bright and as clear as
The black tarmacadam
Well I hope that she sleeps well at night, isn't
Haunted by every tiny detail
'Cos when she held that lovely face in her hands
All she thought of was betrayal

And now the cynical ones say that it all ends the same in the long run
Try telling that to the desperate father who just squeezed the life from his only son
And how it's only voices in your head and dreams you never dreamt
Try telling him the subtle difference between justice and contempt
Try telling me she isn't angry with this pitiful discontent
When they flaunt it in your face as you line up for punishment
And then expect you to say thank you straighten up, look proud and pleased
Because you've only got the symptoms, you haven't got the whole disease
Just like a schoolboy, whose head's like a tin-can
Filled up with dreams then poured down the drain
Try telling that to the boys on both sides, being blown to bits or beaten and maimed
Who takes all the glory and none of the shame

Well I hope you live long now, I pray the lord your soul to keep
I think I'll be going before we fold our arms and start to weep
I never thought for a moment that human life could be so cheap
'Cos when they finally put you in the ground
They'll stand there laughing and tramp the dirt down

 

[Dour]

In reply to Stan, I give you Marvin Lee Aday when he sung "Two out of three ain't bad..." :icon_wink

I'm a bit surprised - do you think she's evil or unpatriotic?

 

[drew]

The reserves are potentially huge down there, it would be a bad idea just to walk away from it because currently it is too difficult to retrieve.

Don't the islanders want to be under UK rule?

 

[Durham Fox]

Yes they did

What's your point ?

I'm trying to find out why all the evil and wrong doing hasn't be rectified in all this time.