RIP Thatcher

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drew said:
The reserves are potentially huge down there, it would be a bad idea just to walk away from it because currently it is too difficult to retrieve.

Don't the islanders want to be under UK rule?
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Annexing land to steal the oil sounds a bit like the old empire. If the reserves are so massive why don't the islanders (the long term islanders not the recent settlers) borrow against them and use the money to form their own state?

Didn't the people of Hong Kong (millions of them) want to be under UK rule?
 
Real Sharapova said:
I've no idea. But the point is, Hong Kong was leased from China and the UK abided by that lease when it ran out.
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I really don't see how that answers the points that millions of British administered people were forced to become Chinese administered people with only the 'elite' allowed to remain British or that just wanting to be British (when the UK pays for everything you have) means you should remain British.

The islands should be self governing and have to work with local states like any other small island state not some British military outpost.
 
Biffa Bacon said:
I really don't see how that answers the points that millions of British administered people were forced to become Chinese administered people with only the 'elite' allowed to remain British or that just wanting to be British (when the UK pays for everything you have) means you should remain British.
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Pragmatism. The territory was no longer the UK's and it would have been near impossible ( and political suicide ) to allow those who wanted to leave to to settle in the UK ( although tens of thousands did make it to the UK ). As things have panned out, speaking to Chinese clients of mine who visit Hong Kong regularly, the situation in Hong Kong, economically at least, is pretty good, but that's more by luck than judgement. How things work after 50 years, when the transitional arrangements come to an end is anybody's guess. Having said that, for trade and economic reasons, I think it suits China to have a quasi-independent Hong Kong.
 
Real Sharapova said:
Pragmatism. The territory was no longer the UK's and it would have been near impossible ( and political suicide ) to allow those who wanted to leave to to settle in the UK ( although tens of thousands did make it to the UK ). As things have panned out, speaking to Chinese clients of mine who visit Hong Kong regularly, the situation in Hong Kong, economically at least, is pretty good, but that's more by luck than judgement. How things work after 50 years, when the transitional arrangements come to an end is anybody's guess. Having said that, for trade and economic reasons, I think it suits China to have a quasi-independent Hong Kong.
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Pragmantism should also tell you that the UK should stop pouring money and influence away by clinging onto the islands, South America is a growing force in world economics, with Brazil now above the UK in wealth, and fostering better relations with the whole continent would be a far better course than continued beligerance because 'the islanders want to stay British'.
 
Durham Fox said:
I'm trying to find out why all the evil and wrong doing hasn't be rectified in all this time.
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I think you are confusing hatred of Thatcher with support for New Labour. By separating the two you may find working out the answer easier.

Spion said that Milliband isn't a Thatcherite; I'm ****ed if I can work out the difference between the leaders of the three main parties. If anybody is to planning to answer Duzza's question maybe they could help me to spot the difference at the same time?
 
Mawsley said:
I think you are confusing hatred of Thatcher with support for New Labour. By separating the two you may find working out the answer easier.

Spion said that Milliband isn't a Thatcherite; I'm ****ed if I can work out the difference between the leaders of the three main parties. If anybody is to planning to answer Duzza's question maybe they could help me to spot the difference at the same time?
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Ah I see. So if so many people hated Thatcher and everything she stood for and did to this country, why isn't there a political party that represents these people with policies to go back to the late 70's?
 
Durham Fox said:
Ah I see. So if so many people hated Thatcher and everything she stood for and did to this country, why isn't there a political party that represents these people with policies to go back to the late 70's?
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I think you are also confusing the electoral system with a model which represents the views of the majority.
 
Mawsley said:
I think you are also confusing the electoral system with a model which represents the views of the majority.
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As I understand it, it's very simply to create a political party. If the majority of the country's views aren't represented its very easy to change. Especially so if there's a big group of the population who all want to return to the way the country was run pre Thatcher. Confusing!
 
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Biffa Bacon said:
Pragmantism should also tell you that the UK should stop pouring money and influence away by clinging onto the islands, South America is a growing force in world economics, with Brazil now above the UK in wealth, and fostering better relations with the whole continent would be a far better course than continued beligerance because 'the islanders want to stay British'.
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My original point was to do with Hong Kong, which is rather different for many reasons, some of which I alluded to. As for the Falklands, I can't get too worked up about them, although as the Argentine claim seems to have about as much legitimacy as the UK's, something in me is happy for the status quo to continue. Plus anything that puts the Argentinian's noses out of joint is quite pleasing.
 
Durham Fox said:
As I understand it, it's very simply to create a political party.
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I believe it used to be easy but then Thatcher implemented a pay to stand policy which discriminated against the poor. That may have impacted on it, I don't know for certain as I haven't carried out a survey.

Maybe everyone else also doesn't hold faith with a centralised system of government?

Maybe, the inertia of the middle class bought into the greed agenda spouted by the bitch whore **** and we are simply dealing with that large section of pretty stupid people?

I don't know.
 
Real Sharapova said:
I've no idea. But the point is, Hong Kong was leased from China and the UK abided by that lease when it ran out.
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The New Territories were ceded to Britain as part of a 99 year lease but Hong Kong was supposed to have been granted to the UK permanently after the First Opium War. Eventually Britain and China agreed that all of the lands surrounding the New Territories would return to China in 1997, in exchange for assurances that Hong Kong would retain a modicum of democracy and Anglo-Chinese trade would be strengthened by the exchange.

Interestingly, the attached link shows that 91% of Hong Kong residents want to return to British rule though. http://www.scmp.com/comment/blogs/article/1189924/scmps-falklands-inspired-poll-sparks-hong-kong-colonial-debate
 
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Lincs Fox said:
The New Territories were ceded to Britain as part of a 99 year lease but Hong Kong was supposed to have been granted to the UK permanently after the First Opium War. Eventually Britain and China agreed that all of the lands surrounding the New Territories would return to China in 1997, in exchange for assurances that Hong Kong would retain a modicum of democracy and Anglo-Chinese trade would be strengthened by the exchange.
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You are right, but the facts on the ground were that the leased part and the parts held in perpetuity were so intertwined in terms of infrastructure, trade, etc., that it would have proved impossible to split. Plus China disputed that the non-leased part was in fact held in perpetuity. Of course, you could take the view that the UK government caved in.:icon_wink
 
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