Saddam Hanging......

[Steven]

My idea = Get out, it's none of our business. If Mugabi is of no concern to us, why are the ohers?

Oil.

 

[Hazzman]

My idea = Get out, it's none of our business. If Mugabi is of no concern to us, why are the ohers?

IMO, there is 2 probelms with it.

First the idea was a joke, not enough evidence to get rid of Saddam.

Secondary, our boys should not be out there when the foundation down of the probelms in Iraq is politics. As you say Melts Zimbabwe was a more worthy cause to 'liberate'. As well as the current situation in Somalia....

 

[alex]

The biggest probelm with Iraq is that it has 3 minorities: Shi'te muslims, Sunni muslims and Kurds. The situation is not too dis-similar from Yugoslavia from yesteryear. My suggestion split the country into 3, althought this still creates certain difficulties. Best to do it....However the USA and UK, will keep Iraq's current borders because of the threat of Iran....the loose cannon. Iran's current image built up by UK and USA is utter rubbish, a worse than Iraq situation, they have an idiot as leader but you're find the captial Tehran is the most Westernised capital city in the Middle East (except Lebanon).

All good points......

Saudi Arabia however wanted him removed so they can have an easier diplomat in the region of such income and tension. It is pure business.
Just like the capitulation of the enquiry in to the corruption surrounding our arms deals to Saudi which was ended once the Arabs asked it be so.
They are in charge. They have the wealth. Should SA pull out of USA they would have no economy.

Read Chomsky. Good. Fact.

 

[lazzer]

IMO, there is 2 probelms with it.

First the idea was a joke, not enough evidence to get rid of Saddam.

Secondary, our boys should not be out there when the foundation down of the probelms in Iraq is politics. As you say Melts Zimbabwe was a more worthy cause to 'liberate'. As well as the current situation in Somalia....

correct me if im wrong but is it not the primary aim of a soldier to fight in wars or is it to learn how to be a communications engineer or go skiing

 

[alex]

correct me if im wrong but is it not the primary aim of a soldier to fight in wars or is it to learn how to be a communications engineer or go skiing

Wars by the way we are losing. Badly.

 

[lazzer]

i dont suppose you could volunteer for the ones we are winning

 

[alex]

i dont suppose you could volunteer for the ones we are winning

You would hope that military intelligence would have a better grasp of what our lads would be facing. My cousin is a Royal Marine, just back from Iraq; he claims it is an utter mess.

 

[lazzer]

my point is that its a war zone and as a member of the armed forces would you not arrive an expect an utter mess

 

[alex]

my point is that its a war zone and as a member of the armed forces would you not arrive an expect an utter mess

In one sense, of course.

 

[Darth Vodka]

Read Chomsky.

hear hear

'Hegemony or Survival' is a brilliant book

 

[highland fox]

correct me if im wrong but is it not the primary aim of a soldier to fight in wars or is it to learn how to be a communications engineer or go skiing

Spot on Lazzer,you join the Army theres a good chance you have to fight a war its in the job description.no good bellyaching when you have to do it

 

[Feriol]

my brother is in the army, and first saw a warzone proper in Kosavo, he expected it to be bad, but he said nothing could prepare you for it.

he says iraq was nowhere near as bad as kosavo though (in terms of disturbing sights and the general fear) partly because he was hardened i suppose, and partly because they knew they were going to have a fight in iraq, as apposed to peace keeping.

yes, you have to deal with it, but that doesn't mean its easy.

 

[Feriol]

Saddam co-defendants to be executed Thurs.

 

[drummindefender]

The biggest probelm with Iraq is that it has 3 minorities: Shi'te muslims, Sunni muslims and Kurds. The situation is not too dis-similar from Yugoslavia from yesteryear. My suggestion split the country into 3, althought this still creates certain difficulties. Best to do it....However the USA and UK, will keep Iraq's current borders because of the threat of Iran....the loose cannon. Iran's current image built up by UK and USA is utter rubbish, a worse than Iraq situation, they have an idiot as leader but you're find the captial Tehran is the most Westernised capital city in the Middle East (except Lebanon).

the shiites are the majority in iraq, which is why the sunni feel pressured as they had been in favour under Saddam for so long but have now lost the power hence the violence (though shiite groups are also violent-fighting back against sunnis and also against the co-allition troops who they want out)-the reason the kurds won't get their own land is because theres some of them in Turkey aswell who would want to be part of an independant Kurdistan-and Turkey doesn't want to lose territory. And how can Tehran be westernised when Iran is an Islamic republic?

 

[Hazzman]

the shiites are the majority in iraq, which is why the sunni feel pressured as they had been in favour under Saddam for so long but have now lost the power hence the violence (though shiite groups are also violent-fighting back against sunnis and also against the co-allition troops who they want out)-the reason the kurds won't get their own land is because theres some of them in Turkey aswell who would want to be part of an independant Kurdistan-and Turkey doesn't want to lose territory. And how can Tehran be westernised when Iran is an Islamic republic?

As I have said the probelm is not too dis-similar to Yugoslavia back in yesteryear, the situation there seems to be stablising finally. Now, Serbia and Montenegro have split up. The probelm with Iraq as I say there are complications is that the countries would fight over the regions containing the most oil, Yugoslavia had no major prosperus region, so there was no argument there. The minorities would be be pressured from other countries such as US, UK, Saudis into claim the oil regions.

Tehran has a very westernised society, woman dont have the restricts as other ME captials.eg.possessions, housing etc. It's an islamic republic but not ran with an iron fist like certain other countries in the world, the leader is all talk, no action.

 

[Melton Fox]

Who gives a ****

We aren't in a position to deal with it properly, we don't understand their principals, their ways of life, their culture, their beliefs, their lifestyles. Let them ****ing deal with it and get out.

 

[Jeff]

Who gives a ****

We aren't in a position to deal with it properly, we don't understand their principals, their ways of life, their culture, their beliefs, their lifestyles. Let them ****ing deal with it and get out.

But a lot of the problems have been caused by us. So do you think it's right that we should invade countries that were fairly stable previously, and leave them in a mess?
The average Iraqi was safer and better off under Saddam. Of course if you believe Bush 'freedom' is the most important thing - but most people would rather have a roof over their head, food on the table, decent healthcare, education, jobs etc, than be free and dead.

 

[Melton Fox]

But a lot of the problems have been caused by us. So do you think it's right that we should invade countries that were fairly stable previously, and leave them in a mess?
The average Iraqi was safer and better off under Saddam. Of course if you believe Bush 'freedom' is the most important thing - but most people would rather have a roof over their head, food on the table, decent healthcare, education, jobs etc, than be free and dead.

My comment was meant to be before this shit started. Yes, of course we have to stay there now and do our best to sort the mess out. We owe them a big debt that we can only ever partly repay

 

[Hazzman]

Who gives a ****

We aren't in a position to deal with it properly, we don't understand their principals, their ways of life, their culture, their beliefs, their lifestyles. Let them ****ing deal with it and get out.

Sadly it harks back to the 80s with the Ayatollahs in Iran and the early foundations of Islamic Fundamentalists were budding. We and the USA felt a need to step in heavy then in relations to Iraq. Supporting Saddam, so that the Iranian regime of the Ayatollahs would not grow.

Overall, it could be as early as 1920's when we gave Israel a mandate to establish their own state in Palestine. I dont think Arthur Balfour knew what he was doing at the time (although, The Boer War was a warning of minorities claiming land as their own when in no rightful position). The Zionists consider Uganada and Greenland as other 'sites' to establish Isreal at the time.

We had opportunities to pull out and wash our hands clean. Our head is so deep in the trouble down, we wash our hands they will still be stained with blood.

Saddam was an awful person but Iraq in general was not a war-zone as it was now. It was ran with an iron fist but an iron fist what agreed certain parts of Islamic law. But at the bottom of all these countries which are fecked over and a mess mostly have a history of UK or USA inference way back.

 

[drummindefender]

nothing major in Iraq will change until 2008 when a new president comes in.