The stability argument

[Steven]

I would like to point out in the two and a half years before Holloway took over at Plymouth there were five other managers before him so he was the sixth manager in that time period. Holloway himself was only at the Club for 15 months.

I am not sure that given the above, stability is in itself a precursor to the success of a Club or that in Holloway's case it is a hindrance to him successfully fulfilling his role as Manager.

I would have thought that a happy confluence of the right time, the right place and the right man for the job is what is essential.

 

[bocadillo]

I would like to point out in the two and a half years before Holloway took over at Plymouth there were five other managers before him so he was the sixth manager in that time period. Holloway himself was only at the Club for 15 months.

I am not sure that given the above, stability is in itself a precursor to the success of a Club or that in Holloway's case it is a hindrance to him successfully fulfilling his role as Manager.

I would have thought that a happy confluence of the right time, the right place and the right man for the job were what is essential.

Singular subject / plural verb - Steven, I am surprised at you!!

 

[syd]

Agree totally. 17 games have passed, a lot more than the number of games usually granted for a manager to bed in. It would appear that he is not and never was the right man for the job which, after all, required somebody who could cope with such tumultuous circumstances.

I doubt a seasoned pro like Joe Royle would have failed so comprehensively to improve the organisational side of this team which, at times, resembles a Conference Select XI rather than an established team of professionals.

Most worrying of all, however, is that Holloway has made so many excuses about these results that it seems to have impacted on the players. There's a major lack of responsibility at the club, and you can see this in the comments made by Oakley who appears to have watched a totally different game last night to me.

Compare this with the language used by Keane and co. during Sunderland's recovery last year.

I doubt there's a lot to be gained from shipping Holloway out this year, though there may well be nothing to lose. If he does recover our form then I cannot imagine a man who's managerial approach relies solely on good old-fashioned blood, sweat, toil and tears could possibly lead us to promotion in subsequent seasons. Yes he's brought stability to lower clubs, but he's never reached the play-offs, never managed in the top flight and - crucially - he HAS suffered relegation from this league before.

There were some very decent (if unpopular) alternatives and there still are. I hope I'm wrong, but early signs are very bad indeed. This is the sort of perspective we should have had two or three months ago.

 

[Matt_B]

Agree totally. 17 games have passed, a lot more than the number of games usually granted for a manager to bed in. It would appear that he is not and never was the right man for the job which, after all, required somebody who could cope with such tumultuous circumstances.

I doubt a seasoned pro like Joe Royle would have failed so comprehensively to improve the organisational side of this team which, at times, resembles a Conference Select XI rather than an established team of professionals.

Most worrying of all, however, is that Holloway has made so many excuses about these results that it seems to have impacted on the players. There's a major lack of responsibility at the club, and you can see this in the comments made by Oakley who appears to have watched a totally different game last night to me.

Compare this with the language used by Keane and co. during Sunderland's recovery last year.

I doubt there's a lot to be gained from shipping Holloway out this year, though there may well be nothing to lose. If he does recover our form then I cannot imagine a man who's managerial approach relies solely on good old-fashioned blood, sweat, toil and tears could possibly lead us to promotion in subsequent seasons. Yes he's brought stability to lower clubs, but he's never reached the play-offs, never managed in the top flight and - crucially - he HAS suffered relegation from this league before.

There were some very decent (if unpopular) alternatives and there still are. I hope I'm wrong, but early signs are very bad indeed. This is the sort of perspective we should have had two or three months ago.

Who for ****s sake? The only one who we might possibly have had a chance is Warnock, and he might have been better, he might not. Or are you still stuck on the possibility we might have got Jewell? Or Davies? We got the best manager we could at the time, and if we get rid now we will get someone even worse, and then when we decide we don't like him in the summer we will go down another step. Let's just get ****ing Taylor back and be done with it.

 

[H T B]

Thought this thread might have been about the stability of our "fans".

 

[Durham Fox]

I'm loving the desperation of the 'Ollie out' brigade, wheeling names like Peter Reid out, brilliant

 

[highland fox]

Is there a Brigade ? I don't hear that many actually shouting for his head.

 

[ashmeister08]

Is there a Brigade ? I don't hear that many actually shouting for his head.

Just give it 2 weeks

should give him a 6 week rolling contract

 

[homer]

I'm loving the desperation of the 'Ollie out' brigade, wheeling names like Peter Reid out, brilliant

They (?) might also decide to 'wheel out' names like Billy Davies and Iain Dowie if they (?) so choose

Doesn't sound that desperate to me

 

[H T B]

500 miles up north, you aren't going to hear many

 

[Durham Fox]

They (?) might also decide to 'wheel out' names like Billy Davies and Iain Dowie if they (?) so choose

Doesn't sound that desperate to me

By your own admission Homer there is no clear advantage to appointing Dowie.

Sack another manager and this club will struggle to attract anyone of note, it wasalready seen as something of a poison chalice when we appointed our umpteenth manager of the MM error.

 

[syd]

The best one we could?
Holloway has been relegated from this league before and wasn't promoted at the first attempt. QPR were glad to get shot of him. He's never been promoted from this league, never even made the play-offs. And he's never managed in the Premier.
The alternatives included Tigana, one of Europe's most successful managers. Okay, so maybe he didn't want it and I'm sure he doesn't now, but yes there is Davies, who has reached the play-offs three times, and won promotion and never been relegated from this league. Then there's the unpopular choices - Reid, who has never been relegated from this league but has been promoted from it. Twice. And managed successfully in the Premier. Ditto Joe Royle and Graeme Sounness. Even Dowie has a far better record than Holloway.
What you've said about Holloway being 'the best we could get' is simply untrue. Both factually and now, clearly, in effect. Just because you couldn't see beyond him doesn't mean there weren't and aren't alternatives.
I want this to work out too, but being blinkered is every bit as bad as being fickle!

 

[homer]

By your own admission Homer there is no clear advantage to appointing Dowie.

I didn't say that - I said that there wasn't much between them

Dowie's impact at Coventry was immediate, and we might need that kind of miracle in a few weeks time

 

[Backdoor Ad]

My only complaint (apart from the obvious results) is Ollies tactics, it seems he doesnt have a clue what he's doing at times. Maybe MM should be looking at a DOF to help out rather than just gamble on another manager??????? Lets face it though another couple of bad losses and i wouldnt be suprised if MM fecks him off or Ollie walks.

 

[Biff]

I'm loving the desperation of the 'Ollie out' brigade, wheeling names like Peter Reid out, brilliant

Would do a good caretaker job if needed, imo

 

[Matt_B]

The best one we could?
Holloway has been relegated from this league before and wasn't promoted at the first attempt. QPR were glad to get shot of him. He's never been promoted from this league, never even made the play-offs. And he's never managed in the Premier.
The alternatives included Tigana, one of Europe's most successful managers. Okay, so maybe he didn't want it and I'm sure he doesn't now, but yes there is Davies, who has reached the play-offs three times, and won promotion and never been relegated from this league. Then there's the unpopular choices - Reid, who has never been relegated from this league but has been promoted from it. Twice. And managed successfully in the Premier. Ditto Joe Royle and Graeme Sounness. Even Dowie has a far better record than Holloway.
What you've said about Holloway being 'the best we could get' is simply untrue. Both factually and now, clearly, in effect. Just because you couldn't see beyond him doesn't mean there weren't and aren't alternatives.
I want this to work out too, but being blinkered is every bit as bad as being fickle!

Tigana would never come here in a million years, Davies is nothing special, Reid, Royle and Souness have done sod all for the past 3/4 years. Still waiting on someone better WHO WOULD COME HERE

 

[Rayvon]

I don't want Ollie out but I think we could go down.

Watch us win the next 2 games and all of a sudden the Ollie out brigade will be saying We'll scrape the play offs!!!

 

[syd]

So you'd rather have a manager who has been relegated from this league, never promoted from it. Never managed in the Premier, rarely been above mid-table and was booted out by QPR. You'd prefer that to Sounness, Royle and Reid purely on the grounds that 'they've done nothing for 3/4 years'.

So never done anything, ever, is better than having not achieved anything in the past few seasons. Bearing in mind that in this time period Royle took Ipswich to the play-offs once and to the brink once more, and that the other two have barely been inmanagement during this time, it seems an especially flimsy argument.

As for 'Davies isn't anything special', he had a bad third of a season with Derby, but in the past 3/4 years he also took them up and took Preston to the play offs twice. And on the first occasion that was from a starting position almost as low as ours right now. What, in your mind, makes Holloway more 'special' than him. Or am I looking at that word in the wrong context?

 

[syd]

And by the way, I'm not in the Ollie out brigade. I just don't think it would make much difference if we did sack him. I don't know what the solution is now, to this season's debacle, but I can say with confidence that in the long-term the answer isn't Holloway. And it never was.

 

[Matt_B]

So you'd rather have a manager who has been relegated from this league, never promoted from it. Never managed in the Premier, rarely been above mid-table and was booted out by QPR. You'd prefer that to Sounness, Royle and Reid purely on the grounds that 'they've done nothing for 3/4 years'.

So never done anything, ever, is better than having not achieved anything in the past few seasons. Bearing in mind that in this time period Royle took Ipswich to the play-offs once and to the brink once more, and that the other two have barely been inmanagement during this time, it seems an especially flimsy argument.

As for 'Davies isn't anything special', he had a bad third of a season with Derby, but in the past 3/4 years he also took them up and took Preston to the play offs twice. And on the first occasion that was from a starting position almost as low as ours right now. What, in your mind, makes Holloway more 'special' than him. Or am I looking at that word in the wrong context?

I don't think Holloway is any better than Davies, but I don't think Davies is any better than Holloway! How is this so difficult to understand?

Why do we need a premiership manager? We aren't in the premiership?! Why would a premiership manager (or any manager who is capable of guaranteeing results) come to a club where they will be sacked after 4 months?!